How do you do so well with so many characters

I don't know if I should take it as a sign of a lack of commitment or stupidity that I read all these discussions about reversals, frame rates, sabakis, and then look at the people who can do well with like 10 different characters.

How the hell do you have enough space in your memory banks for all this information, especially to be used on the fly?

I feel stupid...

 

If you know your basics well then you should be able to get by with any character, the fundamentals of the game are more important than character specific stuff imo.

 

What he said! Master the basics and learn what movies can be punished by the new character you are playing or like moves and the rest is pretty easy. Things like advance setups I usually save for way later.

For combos I usually learn 1 or 2 of the most simplest ones for the new char I'm learning. I try to stay away from having to memorize long complex stuff because if you are not comfortable with your new char chances are you'll drop the long complex combos anyway. Keep it simple with like 2-5 hits just so some kind of damage can be done if you get a launcher. Advanced combos come dead last in my book.

If you have mastered one character already then you should already know what moves can by punished by what and it's just a matter of making the transition with your new char instead of your old.

 

for me, i have to be kinda interested in the character. Or if you r tired of getting beat by a ctertain character should be enough motivation. Even more so cus im a goh user, i think he sucks without knowing other characters IMO. but once u do, hes alright...lol
I havent even touched jeff/sarah/ yet... im a lil strange, i like to study vf more than i play.. if it were the other way around, perhaps i would only be using 1 character.

I look at the frame data ( i pay attention to moves that are punishable, moves you can FUZZY ETEGS CROUCH ETC,i also add +12 for offense(if i had 12frame jab, 11 if i had 11, etc ( example, GRD/NH/CH 2 4 6= <add 12if i were a 12frm jab>14,16,18 to see what moves i can use vs certain WEIGHT CLASSES, for def, in minus situations, i subtract the TOTAL of my standing P like 12 frame or 11 frame and add 1, example if i had a 11frame P - minus another 1 since they have advantage; grd/nh/CH -3,-5,-7=15,17,19 = to see if i abare with P or 2p the moves that will beat me, and to know what risks im taking ). watch a good youtube channel of that character for couple minutes ( only the top players). And if i like the character enough then i start memorizing op/cl specific combos. but like any character it takes forever to be good with that character, but just by looking at the frame once, watching youtube and playing casually can go a long way. thats what i have done for evryone one of the characters i been messing with.. and i just keep doing it to evry character i study evry week. It sounds like a hard task but it takes like maybe 30 min ( this is coming from an asian who cant do math, trust me). Not only that, but the more u know a character, the more fun it becomes so the learning process is quite fun, boring in the beginning, when u dont know the cool stuff with the character. but to make a sub as good as a main, there is n shortcuts . but just because someone knows alot doesnt make them strong, because someone who doesnt know frames, may have better spacing or adaptation. why play rock paper scisorr with ppl when u can get them to whiff. but i think the person who knows the numbers, can fix his mistakes much faster.

 

I definitely feel old because I seem to struggle with any other character besides Shun. This never used to be the case!! I started with Jacky in VF2 and dabbled with every character also in VF2. When VF3 came along I picked up Shun, Jeff, and Taka late into that game, but could still play decently with all other characters.

I continued with all of these characters as my main/subs with the exception of Taka of course but left Jacky behind when EVO came out (still not sure why). Something strange to me is that when VF5 came out I found myself sucking with Jeff, and I thought (felt) pretty good when I played him in VF4 and EVO. So now he too was left in the dust, and I was left with only Shun.

My thoughts are somewhat that Shun ruined my ability to play other characters, mainly because the character himself, and the way I play him, is completely different than any other character. I know all characters have their differences so maybe it's simply the way I play Shun. For instance, when I play anyone besides Shun I find myself trying to do the 1 or 3 P+K+G after a tech roll. I will also sometimes try to do K+G at close range.

This is really sad for me, and I'm sure I can break the habit, but with lack of time, and really mostly happy playing Shun, I guess I'll stick with it. I still however attribute getting old with the slipping of my VF fundamentals. =( And I would think that with having played Jacky for over 10 years that I could easily go back to him, but when I do, or with any other character, I feel like I'm not even playing VF. It's a strange feeling. I know Jacky has changed significantly beginning with EVO, so maybe I just need to buckle down with him. Now I just need to muster up the desire!

 

every char has basic tools. But vf has a system. Once you understand the system, you apply the the rules to each char. Every one has special moves and you have to figure out what it is, that makes it work. With the exception of Jeff. For example, everyone has an anti sidestep move. Most chars have a full circle. Akira doesnt, but he has forward, back pg catch throw, and that will beat evades. Understand? Wolf and Vanessa's OS dmpk puts them low, its beaten immediately by low throw or full circular mids. At the last moment it can be broken by throw escape. Shun's k+g is beaten by OM-P orK to his stomache. Flip kicks Akiras knee, Nessa and Brads death syche hits all levels as well as shoulder rams. Correct me if im wrong. Lei, nessa and jacko's auto punch catch is beaten by double fisted moves. Just a smidge of insight.

 

Learning other characters doesn't just mean that you can play well with them, it also teaches you how to play against those characters. Any time I had difficulty playing against someone who used a particular character, I would go into quest mode and learn to play as that character just so I could learn when to punish, how to defend against certain strings, and so on... essentially, more of the "basics" become much easier to see.

The people who are good with multiple characters aren't so because they know how to play very well with all of them in my opinion. It's because they know how to defend against a large number of characters, and know enough about each character's offense that, when they play that character, they can sort of "turn it on" as the offensive tactics come back to them.

That's how I'm so good with multiple characters, and I've noticed it in others.

Also, about people knowing so much data, it's only on people's minds because they use it. When they have to learn the frames, or the sabaki info, or whatever because it'll get them that one win, then that's all they need in order to incorporate it into their overall game. Play more, learn more, watch more, and it all falls into place...

Of course, that kind of time isn't always so easy to come by

 

good read guys, i'm taking notes

 

Most situations are in common, which means you can do category to make thing easy. For example, low sweep commend such as 2K+G NH(even Sara's PP2K) is at disadvantage and the it's around -4, so you can punish with elbow. But there is still exception like Lion's 1K+G NH leaves him advantage, however, the case is rare.(anything else?)

According to the system, a lot of characters share the same method so it's easy to switch as long as you realize your "purpose", not just memorize the patterns. How many setups and patterns you can remember without understanding why? For example, what's your purpose when you 2P at +1? It's hard to believe someone can use Jacky super strong but he claims he has no idea how to play Kage in general.

 

I think I just know how to use Jacky from playing him so much, not so much as knowing frame rates and such, I just got used to when to do what moves. Not that I'm that good by any means

 

There is one example from Jacky. No matter 4P1P hit or not, you always do 2P+K K K immediately. You memorize this pattern but you don't know "why" it works. The reason this setup works at "NH" because you earn +1, and the following 2P+K is 12f. As long as your opponents tend to abare, your 2P+K must hit the same as low punch 12f. However, you only remember this pattern but never pay attention 4P1P is blocked or not, and it's -4 for Jacky once 4P1P on blocked, and you are not able to do the following 2P+K K K during this situation anymore.

When you realize how to use your +1 with Jacky, now you can put on any character you like to try. But the question is "how am I supposed to know which move gives me +1 by using Kage?" Then you can quickly review the data base and figure out easily, and it also makes you understand the purpose, not just ONLY memorize.

 

In otherwords..follow up your advantages and Play defense on disadvantages.

 

Yeah, it's pretty much what I mean, and there always a reason behind the pattern. Hundreds combination with different characters, how come regular human rely on memorizing only?

 

what do you Mean regular human rely on memorizing only? Are you trying to say people only memorize one thing with their main when that one thing can be applied to all? I could be wrong but it can all fall under general logic.

 

I mean different character has different patterns(setups) to utilize, but the meaning is identical. For instance, unless Jacky no one has this specific move 4P1P in VF. If you ONLY memorize the tactic I mention above without fully understanding the reason by using 12f at +1, then you need to spend A LOT OF TIME in order to memorize different setups with other characters and put them on different memory blocks in your head. We are human, not a computer, simplification is easy and quick to make you comfortable with different characters. Should I blame on AM2 because I have a problem playing Kage and reason is he doesn't have 4P1P so make me unhappy as being a Jacky player?

I actually love to see VFers involved with different characters, and it's pretty commend especially with VF3tb experience. Like I said, it's hard to believe someone can play Jacky with 90% ratio but he declares he totally has no idea with Kage, or any similar cast.

 

Ok i digg what you are saying.. thats what make VF so unique.. Just like Kage only has 623 if i recall. I can use Brad about 85% as good as i use Jacky because of Brads abilities. I can use Wolf but he feels limited in VF5 so its like i must setup the throws more for the lack of attacks. In FS and R Wolf is very good hand to hand now so he can stand toe to toe with a few of the good strikers. It took me a whole year to fully understand brad and his set ups and it is very fun. The only reason i play with Jacky so much is because i want to face every possible match up and dilemma he has so then if i ever play FS i can be ever more better before he since has the tools to nullify certain situations completely. I guess it all related back to flow charts.. I knew since Fighters Megamix that Jacky 4P1P on Counter or normal can be followed up with 2P+K. It just felt that natural lol!!!

 

Yes, Wolf requires throw at Vanilla and he has improved since R with good strikes. I won't put him with Jacky at the same basket cuz they are way different to play.

I agree with you that focusing on your main can definitely level up! But to be honest, there is one thing I don't understand why some players ONLY pick one characters for his entire life? Like Flash, he can be very aggressive with any characters but he chooses Wolf "ALL THE TIME" even in casual match.

I don't know how much on CH, but elbow should be okay.

 

I don't know if you are only referring to my actions after 4P1P or what, because I sometimes switch it with a 2P or a throw, not that its necessarily perfect, but online its pretty hard to react well instead of just having a canned string of attacks. Unfortunately I spam 2P or 2P+KK etc because they work and I am at the mercy of lag to lose frames.

It seems a like it'd be a lot less important to know framerates in online fights because of the frames lost to lag.

 

It's public and probably every Jacky player would use it. I just remembered you used this flow chart a lot even on blocked situation(I rarely could block actually).

btw, happy bday~

 

thanks