How do you train to get better?

There isn't one way to improve in the game. Some of us look at frames, some of us look at set-ups, some of us look at our opponents and some of us look at ourselves. I have no doubt that there are thousands of ways that people take upon themselves to improve their game. I want you guys to share some of them here, in this thread.

The purpose of this is simple: to see what people do to train so that others can take note. Then, they can improve in different ways. I implore long-standing members and recognized players to contribute to this thread. If more people understood things they could do, step by step, to truly improve, then I think the level of competition we find would greatly improve.

Since I'm starting this, I'll give a few examples of the way that I train. I'll write more later as I remember... haha.


<ul>[*]I look at every single move my character has and think about new ways to use it. I'll do this even when I'm out and about, just thinking about VF and different set-ups and possibilities. Then I come back to the game, some stuff works and some stuff doesn't, but I usually learn something in the end. [*]I play Quest mode as if I'm playing an actual person. Yes, this causes me to lose. But by forcing myself not to get into habits, and not to always break guard the same ways, and not to always punish my opponents the same ways, and not to catch the computer with its obvious mess ups, I get used to not falling into habits with real people, and practicing things that, usually, work on real people. You learn more from a loss than you do from a victory, after all ;3 [*]I haven't had the time to do this so much in VF5, but I use to do it a lot in EVO. Basically, any time I had a lot of trouble with an opponent nothing worked better than when I went and learned the character. I've heard that some people go, pick their main, and just duke it out with the CPU foe for hours on end. While this does help to an extent, I honestly get more out of actually practicing AS a character for 2 hours than I do out of practicing AGAINST it for 6 hours. And when I say practice, I mean everything. Look up essential frames, play quest mode, practice set-ups. Really train to win with this character. I know a lot about a lot of characters thanks to this (even though I can't play most of them competitively, haha). [/list]

Hope that gives some idea on what I was going for. I've been thinking about this for a while, which is why there's so many intricate explanations... You don't have to do this if you don't want to.

Let's keep training people /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

I don't think I'm really old school enough to say anything but what seems to be working for me a lot is:

#1 Play as many different people as many times as you can. (Experience)

#2 Look back on all your matches, see what you did wrong, see where you can improve. (Self Improvement)

#3 Analyze your opponents, see what they did wrong, see where you can exploit a weakness. (Adapting to the situation)


I don't own a PS3 so when I play I use my time wisely to both practice set ups, combos, get further used to the system, and gain experience. In a lot of ways it stunts my growth in the game but in some ways it helps a lot because I only gain experience vs. human players and not vs. the cpu.

 

Get better? LOL.

I think I'm relearning all my worst habits.

 

^ stick with Vane and quit picking 124 other characters!! And evade/OM. Problem solved. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Really like what Ladon and Dan said and it parallels what I (try to) do. A couple of other things that have helped me improve:

1. Taking notes on high level players and then conscientiously applying them in your next vs. session. I love watching vids in Ogikage's collection and seeing what the JP players do: movement, set ups, techniques...basically what WORKS.

2. Approach the game with a humble heart. Don't be afraid to ask questions and don't make excuses for losses. I enjoyed getting mopped by some of the LA guys because it made me 100 times better. By the end of the night, my game had improved dramatically. Stuff like "Hey Dustin, you need to evade more." And "Quit using 2P everytime you're in disadvantage." The things you are doing wrong are very easily corrected -- and, as Ladon said, a loss is often more instructive than a win.

That's all I can add. Good thread! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

I agree with Ladons post as I do the same stuff to train. I also like watching replays of fights, especially the ones I lose since thats what I learn from the most.

Also, another reason I think watching replays is important is because sometimes it's tough to notice your own habits during a match. You might be using the same response for a given situation over and over and have gotten used to it since your opponents either haven't picked up on it or dont know how to deal with it. Either way, a skilled player WILL bust you on habits and you've gotta be able to adapt. Watching replays can help you realize habits and safety moves so when you start to get busted on something you relied so much upon, you can switch it up on the fly.

 

I base my training around watching videos, lots of them, hours on end and of every character (frame by frame if possible). I used to print out frame charts and study them whenever I could. Some people like to study flow charts, but that does not work for me very well. I try to think in frames and not just react to a certain animation. I practice stepping a lot in training, and TRY not to cheez the cpu when playing quest, but its so hard cause I'm so competitive and just want to win every time. ><

I make sure I can play competently as all the characters I hate playing against. I also write down a lot of things, weaknesses, strengths, useful reminders, and blurbs in VF documents that I have read, etc. Finally, I play people as often as I can. But that is not very often unfortunately.

Good thread Ladon! We are in the South, should get together and train sometime, you know?

N

 

If you want to train vs. CPU in VF5, you'll get a better fight out of Arcade mode AI set to hardest level than you will in Quest. You will also not affect your win percentage, get any money, or items.

I'm in agreement with watching your own replays to find problems with your game. I'm amazed at how many P+K -> P+K's I throw out if I'm not thinking.

Sucks not being able to record vs. CPU games.

 

are you sure about that?
Arcade mode Ai seems to suck badly.
I think the best way to get better in any fighting game is to try and respond to the opponent, once you get into that habit your game will improve. It is easy to play a game get good at moves and blast them all out but if you do at the wrong time your in trouble.
Try and keep some space, if you see the opponent attack try to backdash it or evade, stop thinking yeh I'm going to use this move on him before you attack, once you set your mind on using a move you try to do it even if it isn't the right time to use it.

Just try and remember this is a 2 player game, attacking and reading the opponents attacks are equally important.

 

Hmmm - I guess it becomes more evident in the last few stages. Overall, the difficult arcades in Quest might be OK. It possibly comes down to preference.

 

Play other humans.

Don't get discouraged.

Take Steroids.

 

Play people that are better than you, and don't allow yourself to fall into the "man, I can't win, therefore the game isn't fun" mentality. Watch what they do, and try to apply it to how you play. Learn how to react, how to punish, and how to break your own patterns.

That's a good way to start, I think.

 

Actually, one of the main differences between the JP version of VF5 and the US version is, imo, the AI.
I have played both versions and I noticed a huge difference in the difficulty level of the AI.
When I started playing the JP version I went to quest mode and noticed that the computer just downright sucked, the lower ranking cpu would NEVER techroll and I could beat it with no effort whatsoever so I went and changed the difficulty to hardest and the AI still sucked and the lower ranking characters STILL would not techroll, ever.
But when I started on the US version I started the game the same way, put the difficulty level up to hardest and had Kyus giving me some decent fights. I even saw some of them techroll.
With the JP version it wasn't until the upper ranking Dans that they would start techrolling and giving me a better fight.

But anyway, back to the topic:
One of the things I like to do when I go into Dojo mode is choose a mirror match of the character that I want to get better with, put the AI on the highest setting, fight and look at some of the combos/tactics/strings the AI does and works and try to make them better.
Just one of the little things I do. Will write more later.

 

Not a veteran, so probably shouldn’t be posting; but one idea I had about learning the game is to almost overdo the movement.

What I mean is use plenty of the various types of dashes.

My thinking is that even though you don’t yet have the instincts to be able to meaningfully apply them to your game. If you can reach a point where you can seamlessly blend moves into dashes and vice versa, both into and out of the various strike ranges; as you naturally learn the positional properties and ranges of moves, you’ll have far more options.

Feel free to correct me.

 

This is great stuff guys, let's keep it going. By the way, when I said I wanted vets to write on this thread I didn't mean that I only wanted them to post, so thanks to everyone for writing down their methods.

Another thing I used to do (and don't do so much anymore unfortunately) is watch a TON of jp videos (back when hk-vf.net worked). I focused on one character (shun) and just watched all the set-ups, all the movements, and really tried to put myself in the players shoes and thought patterns the whole time. And since I wasn't watching just ONE Shun player, I really got to experience a range of thoughts and styles through doing that. Some of those flowcharts and setups I continue to use subconsciously to this day. Just make sure when you do this you watch a fight 3 or more times and really try to dig into the fight. Watching it just for the show doesn't make you a better player imo~

 

Another thing you can get from videos is; if you actually have the file; you can watch it back in slow motion so you can distinguish between the types of actions in the game.

Like, you have videos of a god-tier tournament player that reacts to a move with the same response every time; you can sit back and think about why, but you don't need to follow the same process of deduction to arrive at the solution the player in question has.

You definitely need to be able to differentiate between the actions that need a cognitive decision, and the ones that can be pre-processed though.

 

I train my fingers and muscles, movement, combos, floatings.
I study the command list and try to figure out how every move of the character I play works.
In which situation it should be used, which moves are good follow ups. Pros and cons of the move etc.
Watching replays is a must, I watch them in youtube regularly.
I try to know my character in and out.

What I still have to learn is:
I'm a bit slow with the input sometimes, mostly if its getting out of a stagger or getting up from the ground.
Changing my flow/gamestyle is something I really have problems with.
I'm pretty fast with inputs but I lack precision/selfcontrol

I play VF for about 5 Years now and while playing I've not only improved playing VF, I've improved my reaction, discipline and selfcontrol too. But it's still not good enough ^-^

Too improve in VF its also important to not train the game mechanics, one has to train him/herself too. Mindgame is something you can't train VS the CPU it's somethig you can only train if you use your brain. I try to think about attack patterns that might work while I can't play against a player. Write them down and the next time I play VS I try them out. How does my opponent react to it? What do I need to improve?
Reading the opponent is important, very important. There are a lot of replays out there that are like this: 1 player wins 2 rounds and it looks like the other player is weaker but then in the 3rd round he gets very good and bashes the other player without loosing a round. Thats the best example for analysing the opponent and useing his flow against him.

VF is a lot like martial arts you can train your arms by punching 3000 times a day. But participating in matches improves you much better. So if the online mode laggs it dosn't matter, you can't train your reaction but you still can train your mind ^-^

If somebody has a good method to train his game flow I'm eager to read about it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I know it's a problem between the ears but some techniques might help ^-^ One method I thought about is to start with one move and have 3 different followups that suit onself the best. Use the 1st, 2nd 3rd and if the opponent has adjusted to it just switch the order like 2nd 1st 3rd. But I still havent tested this yet so no guarantee that it works.

 

Play the game at it hardest settings and keep it there playing as many people as you can to get a feel for everyone as a whole. Learning the frames of a move and how to get an advantage or disadvantage will come when you play against an harder person enough how fast it happens depends on the skill on the person and how willing they are to get over the fact they are getting beat time and time again. I used this tactic when I played Soul Calibur for DC early on, I played it at it worst to force myself to beat it at its highest level with every character and now I can play every character in the game at will. One never learns anything if they are playing the game or a person that is lower than them aside from how bad the other person is playing. That is my viewpoint any way.

 

you can train your friends who are lower skilled than you though by punishing their mistakes and showing them what they should be doing which will eventually bring them up to your level then you can both start leveling up together. Just my two cents on making weak players tourny fighters.

I don't have the game so i can't train inputs or combos. What I do instead is memorize the combos I see of my favorite chars. Then I look at massive amounts of vf5 vids and try to find someone who does a mixup or mindgame that I never thought of and watch the video over and over until I feel confident that I've memorized the feel and timing for the idea.

If there is a particular character I'm having a problem beating I'll watch vids of my char fighting that char and nothing else and just watch how other players deal with him. I also try to learn the character that is beating me to become closer to knowing the pros and cons of each of their moves. (granted you should already know the pros and cons of your own char's moves by then)

Also looking at past videos of myself fighting my friends helps a lot. It might be the single greatest contriubuter to my lvling up besides learning new techniques. When I re-watch a fight of mine i try to put myself in the battle as if I was really fighting and see if I make all the same decisions again. Then I watch rounds where I lost and rethink to see if I came to the same situation again if I'd make the same mistake that cost me the match. I really think hard on what I could have done better to keep me from losing that round. Sometimes it's input error(akira), other times it's just I panicked during a guessing game.