How do you use Aoi's elbows cancel?

Discussion in 'Aoi' started by Nybec, Mar 2, 2005.

  1. Nybec

    Nybec Well-Known Member

    I know this discussion can end in a bad way since it's not so frame bounded. But I'll give it a shot.

    I've been playing Aoi quite a while and in the beginning I usually cancelled elbows alot but then the habbit disapperead. Now after some years when I ask someone what they think is hard to counter on Aoi the elbow cancels are always mentioned. I just can't see the good of it (payoff) anymore. Nowadays I don't get that much live opponents and I tend to play the CPU alot and they throw you all the time if you cancel them (it's throw guaranteed if you cancel) and it really destroy my thoughts of using elbow cancels on people.

    So my question goes to you Aoi players who play lots of live competition and have played for a while so your not on beginners level. How do you use elbows cancels and for what purpose? Mind pressure? /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif / THROW mixups (was strong in ver.C because there the mixup was for /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif Old heritage?)? Laugh at opponents who can't counter it /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif? Etc etc....
     
  2. Stl_Tim

    Stl_Tim Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    You should always learn how to condition your opponet to freeze up and then start applying mixup with the cancels. If they don't know what is possible with her they will automatically always attack if they see a delay. Try following through with /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif and see how they react. Once they start guarding this then it's time to start mixing up. By then they will have somewhat of an idea what is possible from her. Without conditioning she's screwed. Try for at least 3-5 possibilities for every move she does, so the opponet won't know what is coming. This way it makes her guessing game better and they freeze alot more. Hope that makes sense at all? Goodluck with your vf studies.
     
  3. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    Yeah all I can say is the cancels are very useful against humans, next to no use against cpu.
    I wouldn't be able to win alot of my matches if it wasn't due to the beauty of cancel freeze up situations.
    Basically the opponent has to know your gonna cancel to use a throw, and that your gonna stay high, and not use backdash setups, fuzzy g, or another elbow, or sometimes to show pure yomi /versus/images/commands/f.gif /versus/images/commands/k.gif , /versus/images/commands/k.gif /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif .
    It's a big risk for them to use a throw after a possible cancel setup everytime hence you get to the use of cancels, the opponent may try fuzzying, where then the beauty of low throw setups occur ^0^. Sure the opponent will get you now and again with a throw but if you mix things up they will be uncertain.
    All I can say from my experience is Aoi is a great tool for messing with people's heads, something you can't really do on the cpu, you get lots of fun from reading the opponent quickly with her and I think her game is more reliant on this for damage than others e.g : See various other characters floather combo goodness ^_^

    /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif /versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif is not something I would regulary do throw straight after, use it as a mixup, but it seems more likely oppoent will retaliate with a move after they block that.
    As with any vs play variety is the key, I wouldn't stick to any pre-dtermined meths for winning.
    If you wanna see Aoi reading at it's best watch Nuki, video clips probly don't tell the whole story but you'll see some sick stuff /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  4. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    You should always learn how to condition your opponet to freeze up and then start applying mixup with the cancels.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    From what I've noticed from people who have played the game for a few years, the conditioning is now instilled at a subconsciouss level rife for abuse ^0^, sure they may need reminding a bit /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif but it's the new players you gotta watch /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  5. aoiking

    aoiking Member

    I cancel my elbow only if the 1 st elbow hit on MC or a stagger and mix up throw//versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif or another /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif
    I prefer cancel /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif after a succeful YY parry

    Personally,I think cancel the /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif string is more interesting
     
  6. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    I also forgot to add that using the severe delay elbow is very good too. /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif or /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif one's, you can delay it by quite a bit compared to normal hit, this can force the opponents hand sometimes.
     
  7. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    I don't use Aoi much, but I hardly ever ever use the cancel, especially from /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif.

    Thing is, if you get a stagger/MC, you can force /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif/throw nitaku anyway.

    Most commonly I just do /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif//versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif all by itself. It's super safe, since she has the followups. That way you can do awesome flowcharts on block.

    /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif//versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif, then boxstep, backdash sweep, backdash sidekick, /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif, /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif or another /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif//versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif.

    Even on block, you can do stuff like /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif. This works because they wait for the followup /versus/images/commands/p.gif, than realize you stopped, and eat the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif on MC because they attacked too late. It's all about conditioning.

    Also, I use /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif like 90% of the time over /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif. It's only 1 frame slower than /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif, but the stagger is really heavy like a sidekick. Plus it's half-circular, and on MC you can hit-confirm the followup /versus/images/commands/p.gif easily. And unlike /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif, you get a knockdown isntead of -1.
     
  8. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't use Aoi much, but I hardly ever ever use the cancel, especially from /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Here's a favourite of mine, after the succesful inashi stance some opponents expect/conditioned to /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif /versus/images/commands/p.gif followup, in that case /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif cancel 270 throw is a good use of the cancel /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Cancel's generally work well in rush down situations too, moderation of cancels I say too much and people catch on fast.
    Gotta be nice in FT now with the /versus/images/commands/k.gif /versus/images/commands/g.gif cancel ^_^
     
  9. Nybec

    Nybec Well-Known Member

    Interesting things said, some new inspiration. Will try and see how my opponents react on the flowcharts. Interesting stuff from you Dandy (guess you tested this on live opponents). Indeed the /versus/images/commands/k.gif cancel will be very nice aswell as the other new FT offensive moves. She needs it. I'm puzzled though that we don't see anything of the new /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif attack.

    /versus/images/commands/k.gif cancel will be nice to "cover" your okizemeattacks. Now I only find /versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif and /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif cancel somewhat effective. /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif cancel feels to risky. Though a /versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif afterwards can help getting nice damage. I'm more fond of the /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif cancel for a /versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif attack. Seems to stress the opponent more.

    Either way. More opinons on the mysterious elbow cancels thanks!
     
  10. Robio_kun

    Robio_kun Well-Known Member

    I agree with everything said above. I just wanted to make a point about the sweep cancel. It doesn't work very often but there is nothing more satisfying than getting a low throw off a sweep cancel /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  11. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    Off sweep cancels I find the best move is /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif /versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif , or off the /versus/images/commands/p.gif etc /versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif chain.
    If you mix that up with low throw, elbow setups, /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif and another sweep the sweep cancel becomes an effective tool for okizeme. ^_^ A good straight out sweep though is always good ! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif (I gotta check the new stats for that move in FT, if only it changed to knockdown on normal hit haha)
     
  12. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    YY is yet another sweet option from that sweep. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     

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