How to determine string and Canned string in VF5 ?

Now I am studing the Brady games VF5 guide and have a question:
How can i determine by command list(with frame data) which series(strings) of my char(Goh) are String(not guaranted after 1st strike hit-not combo), which are Canned string(2nd, 3rd strike are guaranted after 1st strike- combo), and in Canned string-1st strike must to be Hit or CounterHit to make a combo ?

 

You have to test it, its not written down anywhere that I know of (for goh, at least).

One way to test is to set dojo cpu to guard and throw, then jab, then do your string & see if the cpu can block any of it. That will tell you normal / recovery hit. Use guard and mid to test counter hit (assuming your string starts fast enough).

 

Thanks.
And i discover that i can determine this by framedata-in Command list in "exe" column posted "-", then this is Canned string...
...Oh, Noooo! My poor, poor Goh-he has only 2 canned strings(and look for Jacky, for example) =((

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

I thought he had at least 3.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (have to doublecheck)

Not sure but I think /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is on normal hit in VF5, I know it wasn't in Evo/FT.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

The "-" doesn't necessarily mean canned string, in-fact, most of the ones you see for Jacky aren't. The "-" represents the same frame count as listed above I believe. So each of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings are gona start with the same execution frames which is why you see the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif listed as 14 frames, then every move beginning with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after that just has the "-" .

gl0ry and someone else had explained that to me.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

You forgot /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

^ That's not a canned string though, last hit can be evaded or blocked.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Is it a string if you only do the first two hits then? The first two hits combo naturally on any hit.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Yeah the first two hits would be considered a "canned string" in that case, but all together it would just be a string.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Let's simplify things:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Not a string, just a series of punches that are either cancelled with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or just timed just enough that the next /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in the sequence (string!) will not come out.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif String! It's a series of button presses that animates the character in a unique way. Simply pressing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif separately will not produce the same attack. An individual attack of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif by itself will not be a low sweep.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is a string, whether or not it connects in a combo.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Ok, so i've got it: Determine-only by testing. Testing- by "One way to test is to set dojo cpu to guard and throw, then jab, then do your string & see if the cpu can block any of it. That will tell you normal / recovery hit. Use guard and mid to test counter hit (assuming your string starts fast enough). "(KoD)

But still i think the results are VERY UNLOGICAL (by framedata). For example:
1)Jeffry- 3P,P-is Canned string on Normal Hit (3P: exe=16, Hit=-6). I don't have info about exe of 2nd P.

2)Jacky- 6P,K- is Canned string ONLY on Counter Hit (6P: exe=14, Hit=-3, CH=+7). I don't have info about exe of 2nd K(i think this similar to 2nd P).

Why? I think Jacky must have on Normal Hit...

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Don't worry about frames for canned strings, that's not the way to think about it. Just learn what works on normal and counter hit. And then go write it down in the wiki so its useful to others /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

To answer your question, Jeffs 3pp : My understanding is that the second P cancels the hit stun from the first P, so its not really -6 on hit unless you only do the first P. If you delay the second P, for instance, it will not combo on normal hit ( at least in version B ).

Similarly, you cannot interrupt strings, even if the first hit is listed as being punishable on block. e.g. jeff's 43PP - both hits are unsafe, but you cant throw him or jab him after the first one if he does both hits without delay, because the guard stun is cancelled by the second P.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for both Jacky and Sarah combo on normal hit, fastest input. For counter hit and stagger you have more room for hitchecking.

And yeh it's illogical on paper, you just have to know that certain stuff will follow through, based on mC and MC.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

i thougth non-NCs (natural combos)do not count in dojo!??

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Don't trust the combo counter in the dojo. I don't know what rules it follows, but there are many "combos" that it will show you that are escapable by a real player.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

I'm not sure in VF5 but some strings could be interrupted regardless of block or normal hit in VF4/Evo.

Ex: Jeff's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Yeah, thats a good point, sorry about that (and those strings you mentioned aren't even punishable on block).

There's almost certainly similar examples of interruptible strings in VF5 . . . TKoD is interruptible, for instance.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

Yeah, it works both ways... PPP2K for Lau and Aoi can be hit by a low punch immediately after the PPP, I believe, which will interrupt the 2k.

The listed strings in the command list/manual really just refer to attacks that can't be performed except in the string. Should be obvious... Aoi's 6KK is two seperate kicks, but you can never perform the second kick except immediately after performing the first kick, and it's not delayable. Even for similar looking attacks, this is true... like Aoi's PPPK, the last hit looks the same as her 6K, but the PPPK version has different frames, and doesn't allow the second kick followup that you can get from 6KK, so it's not the same move.

All of that is command input information, though... there's nothing about whether a particular attack is guaranteed or not that you can ever discover from just reading through the command list.

 

Re: How to determine string and Canned string in V

You can however get rid of those pretty much 100% by setting stagger recovery to maximum and knockdown recovery to exact. I dont remember offhand any such "wrong" combos that arent somehow related to staggers, lack of techroll or throw escapes. If you set stagger recovery to none you can get hilarious "combos". Kinda like this (Pic is from VF4E though)

edit: as far as i know, if the stagger recovery is on maximum and the combo meter counts string as a combo that means that part is a true combo though, but I might be mistaken. I havent tested if there are some that can be interrupted somehow.

Some strugglable staggers have true combos associated to them (escape is not possible even with fastest stagger recovery) example Akiras /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (blocked) -> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

To answer the topic question, these things are not marked in the movelists and you msut find them yourself or learn from guides.