How to punish with Aoi

Hey everyone, I'm kinda new to the game and trying to understand most of the mechanics and things. I come from DOA where punishing is done by throwing because most throws there are unbreakable and execute in less than 10 frames. But in VF I'm having trouble finding ways to punish my opponents after I block their strings. Sometimes I just PPP or 6P them or even attempt 4P+G but I don't know if I'm doing it correctly. As far as I'm concerned, and I could be totally wrong here, every throw in VF comes out in 10 frames regardless of the command and damage output, so punishing moves with throws like in DOA is definitely not what should be done here.

So, any help¿

 

Aoi's punishment is kind of weak outside of scoring easy knockdowns IMO. Not all throws are 10f in this game. Not sure if Aoi has any slower throws, but here's the general rules as far as guaranteed punishment goes.

At -10 you do get a free throw attempt as long as the opponent is in a standing or crouch throw attempt if they're stuck crouching. Of course you need a perfect input or they can just attack and beat out your throw. In this game, attacks beat throws unless you're grabbing them with proper timing on a -10 or more disadvantage.

At -12, you can still throw, but you also have . It's a free little chunk of damage and small advantage. I don't recall the advantage off the top of my head, but dojo gives you all that data. Simple also works here for like 2 more damage, but you're stuck with the built in follow ups as options afterwards because it's like -8 on hit.

At -13 where opponents and you recover standing, you have +. It's a little bit of damage, but it scores you a knock down.

At -15 where you recover standing, +. Like the -13 punisher, it's also a knockdown. You just get something like 5 more damage for it. Nothing amazing.

At -15 where you recover crouching, + combos on minor counter. I think it leaves you at like -1 though, but free damage is free damage. Aoi's throws from crouching are also a great option to punish because she gets free ground throw attempts after both directions for around 70 damage total.

At -16 where you recover crouching, you get into + hit throw. It's a nice chunk of damage and knocks down.

At -18 is where you have your + or launcher. This goes without saying. Do your best juggle follow up. You'll VERY rarely see this situation on block though. One of the only times you'll get this much disadvantage is when you block stuff like Sarah/Jacky flip kick.

That's pretty much all I know off the top of my head. You just gotta study the frames and know your options.

 

So there are actually many ways to punish depending on how many frames you have to react. That's amazing, they weren't lying when they said this game was deep.

 

That's actually a universal thing in fighting games. There's another thread with a few things I missed here: http://virtuafighter.com/threads/aois-frame-advantage-disadvantages-punishing.16165/

 

I've been trying but it's just too hard for me. I'm focusing 100% on Aoi and Pai because I think my problem with getting used to the game was that I tried to main too many characters at the same time. I like many of them but I'll just focus on the two pretty ladies.

For a novice like me who obviously can't memorize all the frame data for every match-up in the game, do you think I could universally use , 6 and 2 for punishing everything¿ Sometimes I try to go for a sabaki and they simply don't work.

 

You wanna go for a sabaki on your own minor disadvantage usually. After a blocked 3 and anything else less than, say, -4. Do an attack with minor advantage and see how they react to it. What do they do to retaliate? Go with your sabaki option from there. She's got something for everything.

 

For now, you only need to remember 4 from standing. Throws for -10, for -12, + for -13, and + for -15. Those are the situations you will probably see most frequently.

If there's a specific move that you keep falling for during a match, save the replay. When you watch the replay back, you can display the frame data. That way you can see if the opponent is using a frame trap, or if you didn't punish something properly.

 

Manny, is a guaranteed combo under normal circumstances?

 

It is not. If you want to test this sort of thing, go to the dojo vs Aoi, go to command capture, and record the strings you want to test. You can also keep an eye on the combo counter. It's usually correct in what it tells you.

 

will work on normal hit if they are side-turned. Not terribly useful unless you DM a laggy attack but want to play it safe and not go for a slower launcher that might get blocked.

You can also anything that is -14 on block. Not the best punish (since it leaves you at -1 on hit), but it works on moves that recover crouching (where will not).

At -15 is an alternative option -- it does not knock down like will, but leaves you with minor frame advantage and the options you have from that string (delayed , , , delayed , etc.). Lots of ways to mess with people.

Don't forget, your options are slightly different if you're fighting Taka. Your 12-frame punish gets a lot better damage, since is guaranteed. At -15, is also a guaranteed string. However, you lose -- well, you don't really lose it, but it leaves you at -3 instead of knocking down.

 

Thanks for the input, Manny and Dipstick. I never use outside if a swayed punch and I realized it. Now I know why I didn't. Sounds like a great option if you know what to do with that +3!! advantage. What is the general rule with Taka? If something normally knocks down, he goes into a longer hit stun, but stays standing?

 

I'm mostly trying to throw and PK and seem to be getting it nicely. But I'm still having a problem transitioning from DOA. In DOA you can throw punish moves from -7 onwards so when I block in VF a move that I know is -7 I try to throw and fail. Just have to get used to that so I come with another question. What are nice strategies for moves that leave my opponent at -5 to -9 on block¿

 

I imagine it greatly depends on your opponent's habits. Many like to sidestep at disadvantage, so a circular or throw would do nicely. If they tend to constantly attack, I find that (2)3P+KP absolutely destroys their options, also.

 

Lord Hollow brought up some good examples. What you should know is that when your opponent recovers standing at -6 to -9, they CANNOT duck throws, but they CAN attack (abare) through them or, of course, guess the throw break. This sets up a very straight forward mix up for you. You can either throw them to cover stand guard and sidestep, or you can go for a mid launcher or counter hit set up for when they try to attack or duck. + is my personal favorite choice for counter hit bait in this situation.

 

I've been using 3 on my advantage and it destroys mashers. I havent mastered hit checking to the yet, so if I'm not absolutely sure it's a CH, I sundome to then work from there.

 

No... all throws are 10 frames, not just all neutral throws. Aoi has nothing special in that regard.

The only exceptions are Catch throws, and Wolf's Burning Hammer/Burning Driver, which are slower than 10f.

 

Wolf has also a 9f throw with + which will grab you regardless your position (front, back, side, wall)

 

By the way, you can't punish -18 with 33P+K or 66K because of the directional input what makes you lose 1 frame.

 

Oh, I feel like I should point out... this is *incredibly* useful, because catching a move with Tenchi leaves the opponent side-turned. So, PPK is basically your best guaranteed damage for all the inashis that leave you with +12 or +13.

Technically not true... it's possible to avoid 1-frame delay if your execution is just that fast. Although, as a general rule, I would 100% agree with this statement.

 

There is a very generous input buffer window for punishing in this game, so it's actually fairly easy to do with some practice.