How to use 6K

w/e man you're not listening

 

I'm listening. I'm not even disagreeing really. I know there are limits to the potential of the move, but frankly, having the kick blocked is your biggest problem, not stagger escaping. Once you get the stagger, no matter what your opponent does there is a way to screw them. The only thing you really have to ask yourself before you use this setup is whether or not the damage you are getting off of it makes the risk of getting blocked on the kick. And I totally agree you have to do 214k a lot as an alternate to make it work against opponents who know what they are doing. Canceling and repeating p 3p is also fairly effective if 214k isn't getting you anywhere. There are all sorts of ways to screw with people on that setup without even using the stunning kick as the finisher.

 

And then what? My own point in another thread was that while nothing is guaranteed after the stagger, theres always a mixup afterwards. Against someone trying to struggle and fuzzy you can keep repeating elbows and getting staggers ad infinitum. And of course you can get the counterhit out the stagger should they not be able to struggle it.

 

What if they struggle and just guard let alone evade? You could try to throw them but if they do actually manage to not struggle fast enough you'll be stuck in the throw animation while they're just getting out of stagger and eat some dmg. You could use lows to try and force them to not stand and block but all of eileen's lows leave her at negative frames on NH.

there is 214K but that's pretty easy to guard on reaction. . .

 

Ok, I think I know why you are down on staggers lately. It's because you have had trouble with 46k, right? The problem with 46k is that it leaves you with bad spacing, which is why it's not such a great move in my opinion. But p 3p k leaves you right next to your opponent, and you have obvious frame advantage if you attack a staggered opponent, even if they do struggle out of it. Under the circumstances the 6p+k string here gets you the juggle if they don't struggle, and puts them under serious pressure if they do. Throwing here though, isn't such a great idea. Even if they like to sidestep, they can't sidestep the first hit while they are struggling, and then you can go straight to 214p to catch them in the act. If they block, you can mix it up with 6p+k 214k, 6p+k 236p+k p+g (also catches sidestep) and 6p+k 214p ~ 2p How can you possibly be down on a setup that puts you at such obvious advantage?

 

where the fuck did that come from, I didn't even mention 46K dude you don't need to be making personal attacks to try and make your point. That's a completely different kind of stagger. For the record you CAN evade after being staggered so using 6P+K all day after staggers is going to get you evaded and eating launchers unless you start mixing in circulars or preferably delayed attacks since they can duck all of eileen's circular anything moves.

I never said NOT to use it or that it was bad. It's just not the be all end all string that it seemed you were making it. I wouldn't base my whole game around landing this move. it's -14 if the last kick is blocked so you're eating guaranteed dmg if they block.

I Friggin use this move MYSELF on a regular basis so I really don't understand why you keep arguing about this, we're in agreement. What are we fighting about?

 

How is that a personal attack? I was just trying to figure out why you seemed to be arguing against using a move that staggers just because it could be struggled out of. I'm sorry if that's not what you were doing, but that's what it sounded like.

I know, but the gurenteed punish damage pales to what you get if you land the stun. With something like that you have to base your game on the numbers. If you land a less risky setup twice because someone was so worried defending the kick and not getting staggered, then you break even, and get more damage dealt to your opponent than they could deal to you by punishing. Therefore for an opponent that is good against defending the setup, using the stagger kick 25-33% of the time and other less risky setups the rest of the time almost always nets you an advantage. If it doesn't, don't use it, because it's not worth the risk. It's as simple as that.

That's what I'd like to know. -_-;

 

Except /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. (Or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in fact)

Anyways, Im not trying to argue here. Just trying to give friendly hints. Regarding the staggers, if they struggle and block/evade, what do you think you should do? Theres no universal solution to these problems you know. Heres another point: If youre afraid to use your attacks then youre gonna end up even more predictable and have even more trouble against seasoned players. Sometimes you just gotta make the guess.

 

6P+K isn't as good on block as you people make it seem, evade is a very strong option against it that can only be beaten consistently by 214P, even then I think evade crouch dash should be able to beat that out as well.
But yeah if you keep playing against people that fall for P3PK all the time and can't struggle out of it ofc you'er going to overappriciate it, it's a strong surprise tactic to go for once every few matches, it's not something consistant to base your gameplay around., nor is using 6P+K always after a stun a consistant tactic either she has many options after a stun you can use when you learn to assume your opponent will struggle out of it.
Don't take this as me saying Eileen has bad staggers, because she doesn't, she's got a really good stagger game. However, you should look at staggers more as a free 50/50 situation than trying to go for "combo" followups.
For the record, 46K is an awesome move.

Tricky: 3P+K and 2K are great lows to use if you have good spacing since backdash evade beats out most, if not all, the options someone would use to benefit for their frame advantage, and then that option can be punished with 9K+G, K or 4PPK depending on how close they end up to you, or you can dash in and throw.

Manji: 3K+G is 30 frames, most people will block this on reaction, 236P+K2K is setup specific, but it's a good low in those specific situations.

 

I just pointed them out because Trickys original statement about all her lows being negative frames on normal hit was wrong.

 

yeah you're right manji, I had the mental filter working against me. I was thinking of moves that can be viable at any given time. I did leave out those two.