How to work option selects into your game?

I've been playing VF4 on and off for almost a year now, and I feel I've reached an intermediate level of competence. One of the things that I feel is holding me back from becoming a better player, is that I've never really taken advantages of option selects in my game. That's not to say I don't know what they are, or how they work, I just don't know how/where/when to include them in my play. If anyone has some specific examples of option selects that they tend to use, or find effective, I'd be glad to have some input. I'm looking for things that I could do that would become almost reflex, like a G-ETE after a whiffed/blocked knee, or something like that, so I can start with just one or two, and gradually work more and more in when I play.

My primary characters are Lion, Jeffry, and Wolf, but I'm also trying to improve my Aoi, so any specific advice for her would be appreciated as well. Thanks in advance for any replies/usefull advice.

/versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

I learned how to option select by doing it in training mode A LOT of times. Set the cpu to do P-throw/attack. Practice using ETEG at first. Then try to add another TE in there. U also want to make sure youre not getting a whiff animation or youll eat a lot of MCs. After youre comfortable with it you can try against the cpu in arcade/quest/kumite or whatever. You dont necessarily have to get a TE every time. Just get used to doing the E(D)TEG after specific moves. After a while itll become second nature to do so. You should also learn how to do it after getting hit(which i still need to work on), not just after your attacks. Its not that hard to learn...it just takes drilling.

 

I know, I've been trying to beat them into myself all day, practicing. Thanks for the input, my game's starting to look a little better /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Anyone else have some helpful input to share?

 

Play people, Nothing helps your game more than playing people. Play them as much as possible. Your lucky toronto has a pretty big following

 

I agree cuz the combo you thought was a killer might only fool a dumb ass CPU, but to a human oponent your a newb

e.g Lion = , + , + ,

That move will do some damage to a CPU player but if you try that on a human you can never hit him with the

 

No offense people, but I'm not utterly incompetent, and I didn't just start playing today /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif. I'm not looking for combos, and I certianly don't need to be told how to play the game. I didn't mention any combos either, so I have no idea what you (Ura_Bahn) are talking about. Also (for the record), Lion has no + attack (perhaps you meant +, in which case would be a more advisable follow up, as the finisher you mentioned could be easily QR/TR'd by a competent opponent). I'm asking about option selects. Things like evading while guarding against striking attacks, as well as escaping a throw. I'm not even asking HOW to do them, but rather when, or which ones to use in what situations, and how to make them a part of my regular gameplay. Jedi, I'm not lacking in opportunities to play human opponents either, in fact, I take advandage of every opportunity to do so which arises. Oh, and Mike90210, if I go through a whiff animation, isn't the worst I could get nailed with an mC? Because an MC only occurs if you get hit during the execution of the move, not during the recovery, doesn't it?

If there is anyone else who has actually read my initial post, knows what I'm talking about, and has some relative information to submit, by all means please do share. But if you plan to come into this thread, call me a "newb" for something I didn't even say, and make a post completely unrelated to what I asked, then please, find someplace elso to do it /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

 

LOL, what were they smoking? /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Anyways, b4k4, yeah if you whiff attacks, worst is mC hit, stagger, or throw. They won't be able to MC you cause like you said, MC hit only occurs when you get hit in the execution stage of moves. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

I have some general suggestions as I don't know the moves for the characters you use.

Concentrate on building an aresenal of attacks that aren't throw counterable. I've had this used very effectively against me /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. You can then limit your OS to dodge into attacks or dodge into throws. If your opponent is into executing big, non circular, moves, you're almost guaranteed a throw or an MC.

Also, know all your throw counterable attacks and be prepared to at least DTEG after you're blocked. It helps tremendously to know your opponents most damaging throws or the direction common to most any of their throws. Example, use f+p+g and d/f+p+g against Akira (that takes care of four of his throws - if you can TTEG, add d+p+g), or p+g and d/f+p+g against Lei-Fei.

Be sure to watch what happens when you attack. I know that sounds a little silly, but one of my biggest problems is watching the result of my combo starters and acting in time.

I hope this is in line with what you're looking for.

 

Thanks for the input, Plague, this is the kind of stuff I'm looking for. One problem though, is that with both Jeffry and Wolf, a lot of their game revolves around high-risk, high-reward scenarios. I HAVE to use their garunteed throw moves in matches, it's just the way that they need to be played. Correct me if I'm wrong, but their strategies (Jeffry, in particular) revolve around forcing the opponent to guess between being thrown, or getting juggled/comboed for some big damage. The problem with that is, most juggle/combo starters are garunteed throw moves. There's no way I can just take those out of my play, because that leaves me with just pokes and throws, which isn't exactly a game winning combination (I mean, I'm sure some people could make it work, but the potential reward for some huge juggles is to hard to resist /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

Thanks in particular for the input Vs. Akira, as I know those throw escapes will be showing up a lot more when I play against him from now on /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

 

I'm glad my comments were helpful. I feel I'm just starting to be able to offer advice at this level. It's making me think of stuff for my own gameplay /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You can study frame data (ver C.) or counter tables (evo Ver. A) in the movelists on this site. I was just checking out Jeffrey's Ver C. frames and I don't see an easy solution (please remember I don't play Jeffrey and I didn't look THAT hard) to the big risk combo starter. With Akira, I can do a forward foot knee (the harder one) and pretty much only worry about being thrown if blocked. Of course if I screw up and get the rear foot knee, I'm not in that great of shape when it's blocked.

Movies are cool, too. I was playing against Brisal73 - he had recently spent time studying Wolf movies and consequently made himself much more difficult to beat.

Study of your opponents helps a lot. I HAVE to do more of this myself. By opponent I mean game character rather than player. I'm fortunate to play people far better than I am who can say things like "when Lion throws that (insert command notation here) uppercut, you can block and throw his ass."

With Akira, I recently read that I can SDE after my low punch is blocked and likely MC for a crumple, but not be in danger of being thrown if the SDE was blocked. Of course my opponent could dodge that SDE in either direction. I imagine I could be side thrown after that.

Lots of choices, that's what I like about VF.

Good luck.

 

Yeah, I've looked up my frame data, but even before that, I'd made myself familiar with which attacks leave me safe, and which ones put me at risk. I watch vids when I get the chance, I like to take in fresh material to help expand my flow-charts and guessing games. Though sometimes it's hard to find Jeffry material (Wolf matches aren't that hard to come by, and for Lion, well, there's Chibitia /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif). What I'm trying to do with this, is to wire Option Selects into my game, so I'm not thinking about them when I'm doing them, I'm just doing them, so I can keep my mind on my next steps in the match.

I'm looking for things that will expand my defensive options, without further exposing myself to potentially damaging reactions by my opponents. Stuff like doing a guarding double throw-escape after a blocked knee, to protect myself against being countered by either striking and (some) throwing counters, and I won't be opening myself up to another kind of potentially damaging retaliation, that I might not have had to worry about if I hadn't have taken the Option Select.

 

O.S. Boot Camp Training

Screw training mode..practice with a human opp. You'll have to find a sparring buddy who's willing to improve his OS skills.

Set your life bars to 400 and max rounds + unlimited time. Dont start each doing 1 throw counterabled blocked move, instead have a flowchart that will be blocked by your opp. ( something your familiar with doing frequently by other human opponents ). Aswell decide beforehand on 1 throw and one linear move that will be used by the blocking opponent. i.e if your playing with Wolf and opp. is playing Akira ( who will use a + or DJK ) -> Do a , ( blocked ), then a SS ( blocked ) -> Now perform a dodge during the SS animation and a + and let go of and hold onto . Wether Akira chose to do his throw or his DJK, if you inputted the OS succesfully you'll be completly covered ( i.e you'll see a throw escape animation or you'll dodge and block the second kick of the DJK as it is a tracking move ). As soon as you see Wolf block the second kick or throw escape, loop the sequence -> , , SS ( blocked ) and perform the OS again. Dont wait, keep it flowing. This is very important as this puts you into the feel of a match and lets you program the OS as a reflex into your game, instead of isolating it to training one throw counterable move and repeating.

Keep doing this sequence for 1 round. Next round will have the Akira player practicing his OS i.e , , ShRm. Wolf will be performing 1 predetermined throw and move ( chose something with little throw escape animation or that dosnt put you very far from your opp. if he escapes ).

Keep doing this for an entire match. The next match will consist of the same framework ( i.e. response to a blocked TC move will be 1 predetermined move and throw ) but now you'll add diff moves to your flowchart -> instead of , , SS you can perform a HCB+ ( blocked ), SS ( blocked ) or a ( blocked ), Knee ( blocked ). Same would go to the Akira in his respective rounds. Again do this for one match.

3rd match will incorporate the above aswell as a second throw -> so 2 predetermined throws and 1 move. Same format as before. This is the stage of OS training you should now practice the most/frequently. Become comfortable with the constant flow of dodging and TE animations and sometimes camera shifting will effectively put you in a solid defense stance vs. human opps.

Any further added difficulty level in the format is up to you as soon as you and your sparring buddy feel comfortable doing so. I've resorted often to sparring with this "3rd" level to keep my OS sharpened and be equitably confidant vs. ALL the selectable characters. I recommend you practice through with all your 3 fav. chars first and then switch to use every other char gradually. Your sparring partner will do the same. This will both benefit you as it will eventually make you familiar with all the "popular" / "appropriate" throws and moves each char. has. You should also consider after a while to practice OS vs. a blocked : Jab into Throw is a popular technique and difficult one to deal with without proper OS.

All this will eventually build your game's structure and when in a real match the opp. does not respond for example with the "appropriate" throw you've been drilling, all you need to do is to change your command input instead of changing your game plan. The added flexibility awarded to you through reflexive OS is the stepping stone to dominant and effective playing.

p.s. Play MORE real matches than you do training your OS as your drilled reflexes might betray you into doing easy recognizable sequences i.e. the above mentioned flowcharts aint all that effective most of the time and should not be the staple of your strategies. Its like playing against the CPU too much/for too long, when it comes to playing against a competent human opp. you end up looking like a dork...

 

Re: O.S. Boot Camp Training

Whoa, thanks, MrWhite. That sounds like a great way to get the kind of practice/reflex I'm looking for. Well, not exactly reflex, because like you said, if it becomes the norm, and I throw it out everytime, people will catch on, and start to nail me. It seems to me you put a considerable amount of thought into that training method, and I appreciate you taking the time to share it. Now... to find myself an able sparring partner... /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

 

imf, arguably a pretty good player, mentioned to me that he 'pretty much' E-DTEG's any time he's -2 or more, frame wise. That doesn't mean he successfully does it every single time he tries, that he recognizes every single possible situation where he wants to do it, or that he fails to adapt if the opponent is punishing him with anti-dodge tricks like delayed attacks, delay throw, or circular attacks.

It just means that's his goal and where it should be done.

So basically ... every time you have an attack blocked that doesn't leave you in an even situation or with advantage... dodge and try at least one throw escape into guard. It will get you out of trouble a lot. If you don't have the frame knowledge or willpower to do it every time, do it at LEAST every time you have a throw counterable attack blocked.