How well do you know the other characters?

To play at a competitive level, it makes sense to know how your opponents.

On a side note, I think the VF's strength can also be its weakness. Not just learning your own character but learning the other 16 characters just seems too steep. I love this game but the amount of effort in learning this game can be very demanding. I can't imagine there will be VF 6. The game will probably get diluted with just more moves, system additions, etc. Sometimes less is more.

 

Yes, this game is getting too complicated. It needs to take a step back. They should take out tech-rolling, Offensive movement, bounce combos. I don't even think we need evading.
Imagine if they made this game more simpler like DOA or Tekken where you only have to learn a few moves per character and just start kicking ass!
Replay value is overrated anyway, VF needs to be more like those other games where I can join a tourney and place well after just a few days of "practice".

O.k., all sarcasm asside, this is VF, the "thinkers" fighting game. Most of us actually like how this game has new things to master with every version. That's why this game is NOT as popular as all the other fighting games, because it actually takes "work" to get good.

For the record, I am NOT shitting on other fighting games but I play this game way more than any other particularly because it is, imo, a more difficult game to fully master and it challenges me even more with each new installment.

 

VF 2 and 3 were very successful (in Japan anyway). Had none of the things you mentioned even with your sarcasm.

There still can be a lot of thinking involved with a limited set moves and parameters.

 

Yes, they were successful because we had nothing better at the time. Those games were the starting points that got us to where we are today but they are dinosaurs now.
If you can still play those old games competitively and still have fun, more power to you. Even though I respect those games and I have fond memories of them, I personally can not deal with the limited arsenal.
I'm happy now with the amount of defensive and offensive options that VF has to offer but once this game starts getting old and a new VF with more moves and better graphics/sound, defensive and offensive options arrives, I'm there to try it out.
I might not like it (I did not like VF3, totally skipped out on playing it) but I still appreciated it. I used to watch other people play it because it was still joy to watch... but I just couldn't deal with that new "evade" button.

Anyway, that's my two cents. You feel how you feel and to that I say: there are other simpler games on the market.
And I feel how I feel. I'll just agree to disagree.

 

That one has to put the effort into knowing the strengths and weakness of the other characters, I think, shows how great this game is. I love that think about who I am facing not just focusing on my characters strats. Among my friends I probably lose the most. On average against the top person who I play with at best I can get a 20-30% win record. Playing against him gets me thinking about how to squeeze out every little bit of my character. Which throws should I focus on trying to break, which direction should I evade, should I try to stay Open or closed stance with him, what's his weight class. I love fighting games in general but when I'm playing other games about the only thing that can affect my play style is the opponents range. I love that this game gets me thinking about little details to try and beat my opponent and how sometimes those little details can add up to make a huge difference.

 

I respect your mentality and attitude toward the game. Its just that 99% don't have the same mentality as you. Not in America anyways. I have invested a lot of time in learning this game, and I still lose about 40% of time online. Sorta realized that you have to read your opponent to get good at this game. That means learning the other 16 characters. Its just too much at times. I can deal with the system additions/changes. Just think there are just too many moves to deal with each individual characters. With every reiteration (VF 5 R to come), theres going to be more moves to deal with. Still VF is the King of Fighters. Hope they can just tone it down a bit.

 

I know this is an avenue I have room for improvement, although I know characters and their tricks and basics decently, some of them are too complex to grasp yet. Kind of like Lei Fei flowchart options. For instance I have personal problems recognizing Gohs throws, I can escape throw directions ok but if I cant see which direction opponent is using then Im going to get thrown. Had this issue recently.

 

Everything Myke stated is very good advice. I might also add that if you play higher skill players you will notice that there are moves all players of a certain character will use. Key on these moves and go from there. I watch a lot of youtube matches posted on this site for that very reason.

What moves do other people like to use for my character? In what situations do they use them. What moves do people use for other characters and in what situations do they use them.

I look at it like this. If I was actually fighting somebody and all I knew was their style, I don't know everything they are capable of, but I do know there are certain things I need to look for.

 

I think it's getting a bit excessive with all the characters, still haven't got my head around Goh and Brad properly yet. So fuck Blaze and Eileen.

 

Fyi, not that you had problems with my goh. Also since you're in
Finland lag may have been an issue but 3p+g followed by ground throw is not guaranteed. The tech and getup or break the ground throw. (Which you did a few times) We played early morning (USA time) the other day.

 

The complexity and depth of VF is the beauty of the game. There's enough skills involved to work on perfecting that the game never gets old. When you've learned your character, you can start learning the others patterns next.

Every level of complexity is a new puzzle to solve, it's great!

 

Yeah but my point was that I didnt know what throw command you were using (3P+G) so I didnt really escape it in the first place.. I have found that several of Gohs throws look too similar to my un-judo eye.. ^^ It started to annoy me as the match went on since you used the same throw repeatedly also.

 

Yah I 3p+g a lot primarily because it's a Jeff reflex and if
you don't know how to get out of or break the followup ground
throw it's stupid damage.

True, yknow to be completely honest I generally look at throws
this way. If someone is doing the throw from a crouch dash
quickly and repeatedly chances are it's a 3p+g throw or 270 throw.
Why I don't know just seems to be the case. Other throws are
somewhat intuitive, it seems if the throw causes the person to
fall backwards it's a 4p+g throw.

Examples
Laus 4 p+g Lau falls backwards.
Shuns 4 p+g Shun falls backwards.
Wolfs DDT 4 p+g wolf falls backwards. (may be wrong here)
Gohs 4 p+g goh falls backwards
Kage 4 p+g Kage falls backwards

(off of the top of my head anyway)

3 p+g normally seems to involve throwing someone forward. Or
a position change:

Lau 3 p+g over throw forward thing
Jeff 3 p+g crucifix
Kage 3 p+g over throw/position (I think anyway)
Goh 3 p+g over throw
Shun 3 p+g position change
Eilleen 3 p+g (assuming this is the position change)
Akira 3 p+g over the shoulder kind kind of thing (not forward)

Okay I'm starting to talk out of my ass but yah that's kind of
how I recognize things. Not that I broke any throws against
your Sarah hah.

 

to be honest, I only know my main fighter's moveset, so i know what I can get hit with and how to prevent that, and what I can go into. Based on how other character's moves work in a similar fashion, it's actually kind of easy to have somewhat of an idea of what you can punish with.

Also, the strongest throws are on average probably 6 and/or 4. After that it gets more specific, like Kage there's 2, Sarah there's 1, Jeffry 3, etc.

Characters got a couple moves, where everything else in their moveset is based around them, meaning that when these moves work, then everything else starts to work. You can set the pace much better for yourself when you know what those moves are.

And finally, if you play the game using nitaku then it becomes much easier to play. The game has it's usual moves that lead into nitaku.

I run into the trouble, when stuff becomes unknown cause it's counter-intuitive, too safe, or slippery. I end up experimenting mid-match figuring out what can actually make contact guaranteed. And I really get owned, or just get frustrated playing, when my opponent avoids nitaku/santaku.

 

I've grinded hard last 6 months to know the basics of all characters but mostly due to I have a problem sticking with one char and I've wanted to help some people down here with stuff. I doubt it will give me some sort of big advantage in versus play against competent opponents - probably the exact opposite of if I would have stayed with one character.

 

I'm now starting to use Lau and Pai. Thing is, I'm kind of dragging my ass on it because before I start seriously playing any character I take the time to learn all of their combos along with the requirements, their frame data, and move stats. That's the main thing that keeps me from starting a new character. I study them extensively before even starting with them. It's not really fun to read and memorize all this shit, but it's something that I should do. I hope to have a decent understanding of every character someday.

 

I like to know the basic use of the other characters in so far that I know how they are played effectively. I may not be able to do such myself because I don't know all their commands, but I feel it's important for me to know how they should be played.

 

Know your opponent's main launchers - as a general rule, you should try to know what your opponent's main launchers are, and how to punish them. Most characters have a handful of them.
How? Visiting any character's combo page on the wiki is a good start to identify the launchers. Checking the command list for their properties is the next step.

Know your opponent's main throws - as you know, throwing is integral to the VF system, so knowing your opponent's main throws will help you better decide on throw escape directions.
How? There are a few threads devoted to this. Can also check the VFDC command lists.

Specific character problems - there may be certain setups you struggle with against certain characters. It's hard to know how to overcome something if you don't know what it is.
How? Analyse saved replays of matches you lose. Seek help in the VFDC forums.

Focus on a character or two - if you're in a situation where you're regularly playing the same people, then it's a no brainer that you should focus on their mains first. If you're playing randoms online though, then just pick character(s) that you have trouble with (or piss you off) the most and go from there.
How? Observe your own playing environment.

Thanks Myke,

I'll try taking your approach.

 

it;s not. 3p+g is the stagger throw. 6p+g is the position change.