Hyper Action Battle...phew!

Just tried this mode for the first time the other day. Am I the only person here who thinks this mode will be a smash hit for casual gamers in U.S./U.K.? This mode is basically Tekken's 10-hit strings on steroids...no, it's more like SF's Alpha combos in the 3D plane. You can button mash and easily get cool looking results. Even I was practically button mashing (or rather, controlled random mashing) when I tried out this mode.

If I were SOA, I would either make this option immediately selectable or make it an easy item to unlock (i.e. just finish the game once) for stateside release. It's so accessible that completely casual gamers may prefer HAB definitively over the normal mode. HAB VFers, I'd say, are better than none.

 

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ice-9 said:

This mode is basically Tekken's 10-hit strings on steroids...

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I wouldn't say that. I'm no Tekken expert but those I do know who play seriously don't even care much about those stupid 10-hit strings (some would even call them "useless"). (Hey Tyson, if you're around, would you mind giving some input on this?)

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You can button mash and easily get cool looking results.

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True, but as always, skilled and practiced HAB players will dominate. I saw an exhibition HAB Aoi get almost 20+ hits and over half lifebar damage. All the PS2 Evo guides have put out HAB combos, some of which are very difficult but all useful and very cool looking. Anyone who could use those well would annihilate a noob.

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If I were SOA, I would either make this option immediately selectable or make it an easy item to unlock (i.e. just finish the game once) for stateside release. It's so accessible that completely casual gamers may prefer HAB definitively over the normal mode. HAB VFers, I'd say, are better than none.

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Yes, let's COMPLETELY FORGET about newbies learning the basics and nuances of gameplay and have them mash away. It's like Tekken 3 Eddy Mania, only BETTER because it's VF4! </sarcasm>

 

Well, you completely mistook the intent of my post as I did not mean to imply that HAB is somehow...shallow or only relevant for newbies.

The point is that casual gamers will probably enjoy HAB a lot more than the normal mode. By "casual" I'm thinking about the random guy sitting next to your cubicle who does not intend to go any further than the occasional stress-relieving 10 minute bash against the CPU, or with an equally casual gaming friend 10 minutes before Monday night football comes on.

 

I doubt vf4 hyper battle is gonna please the western "casual gamers" any more than vf4. There are many better alternatives that would suit the 10 min stress release needs, stuff with more blood, nudity, button mashing. There are just too many games out there that's easy to learn and quite enjoyable, like many EA sports games. DefJam for example, self taught in 2 min and it's great fun. Bottom line is, vf hab or not need some skills to get good at, If someone wants to button mash there are other better masher games that's more fun imo. I can see where are you coming from jeff but vf is still vf, unless it's vf extreme vollyball or something...

 

I dunno, VF has gotten at least some of the recognition it deserves in the states (due primarily to its release on PS2), so people are at least aware of the game, and the only thing turning off most casual gamers is the fact that they can't mash in VF and win. At all. Or rather, they can't take a low level of skil into a match and realistically expect to competet. I mean, why do you think SC is so popular here? Joe Gamer can mash and have things look fairly cool and gain a victory here and there against the AI.

A sense and mastery of timing is the only thing keeping the masses of VFer wanna-bees from being any good. HAB can lessen the importance of timing, thereby making the game more "accessible" - in that some guy can mash and win a few times - thereby inherently making the game more popular.
The main obstacle keeping casual semi-enthusiasts from becoming really and truly interested in the mechanics of the game is removed. Of course, i'm making a huge assumption here: that winning a few HAB rounds will get them wondering why certain things worked and others didn't, as opposed to being completely discouraged that 'nothing' worked and giving up.

Let casual gamers play casually and win a couple rounds in a separate game mode, i say. Get them interested in really learning the mechanics of the game to find out why they're getting their asses handed to them in all the other modes.

I just don't want to see any large gathering HAB tournaments...

Ok, i'm done rambling.

 

Hmm, lemme try to save this thread:

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I just don't want to see any large gathering HAB tournaments...

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I think this is a very real possibility! Zero-chan already pointed out how there is skill in HAB, and I agree. Ground-based combos, a whole new way to think about throw guaranteed situations, custom canned strings, and stuff like advantage/disadvantage still applies.

But let's look at the components of what might make HAB attractive to Western fighting game fans...even more so than the normal mode perhaps:

- Minimum criteria of depth: this is a game where a skilled opponent can defeat a lesser opponent

- Emphasis on memorizing/being able to pull off complex moves in sequence a la MvC, KI, and MK combos

- "Fast" gameplay...I think no one will argue against this; it truly is the SF2 Turbo iteration of a 3D game

- Style. HAB just oodles with style, and it's very exhibitionist. This is a game where two decent players can attract a large, admiring, oohing and ahhing crowd

- Accessibility; it's a game newbies to VF can immediately enjoy. And not just casual gamers, but also veterans from other fighting games new to VF

- Overpowered characters. This might be premature for me to speculate, but HAB doesn't seem all that balanced. Goh for example seems a little disadvantaged in his ground combos, and Akira is probably even more scary with instant recovery SDE. And Jacky...whoo! Very scary. There are going to be top tier characters in HAB and, unfortunately, U.S. gaming precedence would indicate this to be an attractive thing

I really think had Sega sold HAB as a separate game and not release Evo at all in the U.S., there is a strong possibility that it would garner even more fans than the current Evo. Maybe even to that critical mass that MvC and Tekken currently enjoy.

Agree? Disagree? And is this a desirable thing? Would we want HAB to be more popular than the normal mode, even if that meant skyrocketing VF to the fighting game of choice in the U.S.?

 

Jeff, wanting a MINIGAME to become more popular than the CORE is just plain STUPID. HAB is fun as a break from the main game. Making it INTO a main game is dumb, unless they added a shitload of extensions and modifications to warrant spinning it off. Look at the first FV, it runs off a modified VF2 engine. Without the proper additions and modifications, though, there would have been no way in hell it could have stood upon its own.

Besides, FV2 has all the elements you mentioned already. Except the stupid "dial-a-combo" shit (which anyone with taste has long since learned to abhor) and overpowered characters (...well, OK, balance isn't so hot in the first.).

Trust me, Kataoka and Katagiri know how to do things right more than any of us ever will. And they've got no plans to extend HAB beyond what it is: a fun little extra to the core game.

 

Agree? Disagree? And is this a desirable thing? Would we want HAB to be more popular than the normal mode, even if that meant skyrocketing VF to the fighting game of choice in the U.S.?

It's not VF anymore... I don't see it propelling VF to anything... it's just controlled mashing. Fighting game players today might be shallow but I think their attention spans will dry up when they realize HAB has no safety nets in place to make it even remotely skilled and fair. It's more like a cute game genie code than anything anyone can take seriously.

Some pre-emptive arguing against "come on, it's a bit deeper than that":
..If it did become popular, the instant you show people regular VF4 they'll go back to mash mode. They'll learn nothing about the strict risk and reward system of VF. Throw escaping is out the window, because throw counterability is gone. Movement is similarly out the window, why approach with a crouch dash when you can approach with an uninterruptable flurry of mids? If someone tries regular evo after playing HAB for a while, they're going to feel like they're the butt of some cruel joke. All of that is with the casual player in mind. With good players:
-canned throw combos.
-high low mixups too fast to guard on reflex and too random to guard with yomi
-Sequences that will crush you even if you're guarding... i.e. lau sweeps then immediately cancels into sidekick. Can you stand and guard that sidekick while still in blockstun from the sweep? Or sarah does her crescent kick followed by an immediate elbow. I dunno how the mechanics work exactly, but even if it's possible to guard stuff like this, it'll be a trial and a complete guessing game.

I could go on... lemme end with one of my tedious analogies.
Chess wouldn't be more popular in america if they kept the same pieces and made it checkers.

 

Bwahaha, Creed I like your response as we think closely on this issue. Still, if a friend was to come over with no background in fighting games and is curious to see what this VF hoo-haa was about, I would probably hook him/her up with HAB first.

Seriously though, I wonder how MvC, MK, and KI fans would take to HAB...I think they'd love it...maybe even Tekken players. There ARE system rules in HAB. For example, you can custom string the same move twice in row but not more.

Anyone want to conduct an experiment? There aren't that many MvC, MK, KI or Tekken players here in Singapore...

 

MK KI fans? hm.... let's pass on the crack pipe please.

 

No matter how much it's not cool to be, I'm a big KI fan (Not that KI2 or Gold garbage). It's not the most impressive fighter and it doesn't have the most depth, but I still find it fun as hell. Hell, I helped out with Project KIAME years ago trying to get it decently emulated and I'll buy an Arcade Machine when I can find one not being sold for a ridiculous price. /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif MK has sucked since MK2.

 

I think if gets people's interest and then they come around and get into the real Virtua Fighter then its all good.

Besides its all about having fun and if people have fun with it, then AM2 accomplished its goal. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Since price of VF4 machine drops fairly quickly, VF4

machince(not Evo) will become available at a quite low

price any time soon.

(I heard someone bought a VF3 machine for 30$ in

Korea.)

 

As far as the various alterations to game modes, you cannot argue the fact that they are better than nothing, becuase this is the first real time that Sega and Am2 have put a good amount of effort into a console version of Virtua Fighter.

The main strength of the VF4 and Evolution games are, aside from the incredible depth etc, is of course the sheer longevity of the game, and how you cannot realistically "beat" the game.

In order to beat VF4, you must master each character and unlock all of his or her items in Kumite mode and reach High King or Emperor rank, I don't know about you, but I just started to play Evo, and only "completed" VF4 with 5 characters.

in order to further extend the longevity beyond Quest mode, Arcade missions, and the occasional Versus match, Am2 included fun diversions, or even 'minigames' if you want to call them that, to popularize the series, and move them into a new direction, a new direction only for the console VF players though.

It is true how while Evolution is an amazing add on for an already massively succesful arcade game, the game is very inconsistent with what the series has traditionally been.

Goh and Brad are very different from all of the other players, and play almost like Tekken characters (but I never play Tekken so I might be wrong), and the Hyper Action, wall matches, etc. Are all just "experiments" to see what AM2 and Sega should include in the next version of Virtua Fighter.

If you really need an example, take a look at how there is an AI training mode in VF4, but they ommitted it in VF4 Evo, because no one really used AI mode realy as much as Kumite and VS. This is also the same reason AM2 has never botherd to make endings to the game for each character, no one would bother to look at them, as that is not the point of VF.

In the next VF(5), I would not expect for you too see anything like HAB, but more of a Kumite style layout for the Japanese arcades, and a further expanded Quest mode for the console versons, or possibly online play.

Phew! I gotta get some sleep so cya later!

 

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...or possibly online play

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Not happening. AM2 as much as confirmed it to my face.

 

One of my friend said,

Hyperaction battle mode is the most button masher-

friendly game ever.

I had to agree on that after I played

Hyperaction battle in VS mode today. It was kinda fun.

/versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

I was pretty hardcore at TTT and not once did I use a 10 hit combo, unless to piss my friends off with Yoshi once in a while.

I find this Hyper mode rather disturbing. I know its not the main game and I know there is still skill to it but.... I just don't understand why they put this in- it isn't VF. I know you don't have to play it but it feels in some way they are splitting the game up. I personally would have rather seen this fighting mechanics in something like a FV 3 or Last Bronx sequel. I only want there to be ONE WAY TO PLAY VF. Also, screw attracting the mainstream gamers (although I want Sega to prosper) that can't handle the way the game was meant to be played. I'm sure there will definately be people that have HAB gatherings. I can just imagine going over to my friends house and they won't play anything but HAB because they don't have enough brains to play the real way- I'm sure HAB would be too much for them anyways. All they can handle is Counter Strike.

My fear I guess is; I don't want to see 2 VF worlds emerge- but then they can't ignore each other since its from the same game. At least like VF and Soul Calibur (I hate Soul Calibur) players can ignore each other.

Off topic, anyone else have bad feelings about a Namco/Sega merger?

 

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Event_Horizon said:

I think there should only be ONE WAY TO PLAY VF. That's also one thing I was kind of worried about the new Quest mode, since there are several arcades. I liked the Kumite mode where there was only 1 way to play.

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Hyperbattle mode is just an extra stuff and nothing

more than that. It doesn't change the actual game play,

and I think no one really thinks of Hyperbattle mode

as an independent, different game.

Speaking of the Quest mode, 8 differrent arcades

just means 8 different levels of A.I. In Kumite mode,

you have no control on choosing your opponents'

difficulty. In Quest mode, since the whole opponents

are divided by 8 groups according to their level( You

will face most difficult ones at 8th arcade and the

easiest ones at 1st), you have more control on

choosing the diffculty of A.I.

 

Jesus... its just another mode and another way to play the game... it doesn't mean that all of a sudden everyone's gonna drop standard VF play and go HAB.

We played HAB a bit today with some friends... and I guarantee you hardcore players of the game can only stand HAB for about 30 minutes, if that long. It's a fun diversion, but it's still not the real thing. There IS some skill involved though, because you can only mash your way so far until your combo stops (because you input the same move twice somewhere). Skilled HAB players know to plan their strings ahead of time to maximize their flow... in theory, you can perform all of your non-stance specific attacks in one string as long as you don't repeat anything.

Being able to connect a string more than 15 counts is impressive IMO. In the end though, HAB fights really dont appeal for extended play. I actually like a few of the other modes, especially Iron man and Seesaw.

 

( I edited my post above some) But like I said above I know its an extra mode and the real gameplay is still intact. I just don't want it to become more than a mini game and have two VF worlds