I can't figure out this game and I could use some pointers.

Just want to point out that the combo list does have basic/universal stuff listed for each launcher, sure most of the stuff is max damage and is quite execution heavy but it should be easy to ignore/filter out the more intimidating ones.

I still have a lot to do on the combo list so give me a little more time, other than that if you have any Akira specific questions feel free to ask in his forum or you can even PM me.

 

Suck-age update:

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I'm aware. In the post I was responding to by ToyDingo, he was using -4 on block as a knock against 1P and then proceeded to recommend something that was more unsafe. I was just pointing that out and then stating what I felt why 1P was decent and why I like it.​

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Here's the thing though: I'm pretty sure I'm doing it wrong. I'm also pretty sure I've been doing it wrong for these past several months. So all my practice has just been developing bad habits that I'll probably have to now unlearn at some point once someone goes "Why are you doing it like that?" Right now, I have a much easier time hitting Akira's knee than I do 33P and that's why I keep going for launches with his knee.​

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Not really.​

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I'm gonna guess and say that you already had some fighting game experience under your belt. Would I be right? This site isn't the best resource for actual newbs.​

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Like this one?​

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"My own pace" is not having gotten one bit better in seven months. Which is why I finally gathered up the courage to actually make a post on here and ask for help.​

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I can't stress enough that I've probably just been practicing doing everything incorrectly up to this point and I'm going to have to unlearn it all. That's how it usually is with me.​

 

Learning and unlearning is part of the refinement process. If you feel like you are executing improperly I can only stress, again, the importance of turning on Input display and Command display in the Display setting menu to check yourself.

Just from watching those matches I feel like you are developing very well. You are blocking more and you are whiff punishing well. In those matches I feel like you weren't moving enough or well enough. When you are at range you may want to consider moving to re-position yourself rather than trying to attack at range. Or using your movement to gain an advantage in terms of ring control. For example: In the first round of that v. Aoi match you get two knockdowns then you just stand there. I can understand not wanting to go in and try to press your opponent but I feel like you could have used that opportunity to regain the center of the ring. I guess I feel like you are being a bit too risky. Just going for launches and high damage stuff in the neutral game rather than trying to set those attacks up.

The other thing that is apparent is your lack of match-up knowledge. Just watching you get tossed around by Aoi's SD cancels makes me feel that you are uncomfortable with your understanding of the match-up. Also some of your responses to you opponents attacks are the "improper" responses. Like when you are @ +9 you really don't want to throw out a 2P, although it did set up a really nice counter-hit when you opponent evaded and tried to punish you. Your opponent has given you a huge window to use a better move and to continue blocking when you are +6 - you don't need to attack here but you probably shouldn't be standing there and continuing to block. Again the option of movement is very available to you in that situation.

That 4P ch into throw, during the 2nd round against Aoi was sick, if you had gone for a higher damage throw option it would have won the match and you wouldn't have had to risk the wake up attack.

 

After having watched your most recent videos, I'll offer what I can.

My biggest observation is that you're doing what's called 'attacking at a disadvantage' (Japanese term is Abare) after being struck. What this means is that you're getting hit with something, and your opponent is continuing to attack, and you're trying to attack as well. Because your opponent is on the advantage (which is happening because his strike is hitting you successfully), his next attack comes out before yours, so you get hit again, and again, until you finally block, at which point your opponent scouts your attempt to guard, and throws you.

To remedy this, there's a really easy and quite strong defensive technique you can use - you standing guard, and you put in a throw-escape at at the same time. A throw-escape is performed by holding the + buttons, along with either or , and will break any throw of your opponent's that uses the same direction. The only thing you have to do to make sure you don't toss out a throw of your own is to make sure you're guarding first, so the whole thing would be that you hold first, then just hold and either or as well (such that you're holding down and as well as a direction).

If you can get into the habit of doing this whenever you're struck, you'll limit the amount of damage you're taking before you get back on the offence. You'll also get back on the offensive faster, because, 99% of moves give advantage to the defender when they're guarded, meaning that now, it's your opponent who's going to get hit if he tries to attack at the same time as you. There are obviously ways around this - in truth, a lot of of higher-level play is based on playing around beating the high-guard (as well as other, more advanced defensive techniques that you can work on later), but this should give you a fundamental basis from which to work and will prevent you from falling into the trap of 'spamming 'cos you don't know what's going on'.


Next observation would be that you're tossing out that knee too much. I know you say that it's easier for you to do that than it is to use the Super Dashing Elbow (SDE, command: 666P), but think about your situation. You're here, asking for help because you want to get better. The way to get better is to work towards doing what you should do, and not just stick with what you can do because it's easier.

To give you an example of my experience, when I first started with Final Showdown, I couldn't get my head around the whole 'being able to guard and throw-escape at the same time' thing. So I was just guarding and never throw-escaping. After eating hundreds of throws, I started thinking 'you know, I really need to do something about this'. So I asked my brother (a more experienced player) what to do, and he told me about being able to throw-escape and guard at the same time. So, I go ahead and try it, and match after match, I'm screwing it up, messing up the commands so that I end up not guarding at all, or doing throws or punches etc - it seems worse than just guarding. However, with time and with practice and with persistence, I slowly started getting it down. To begin with, I was managing it, but I was doing it way too late, but at least now I was getting the commands down right. Then I started improving my response and reaction etc, until now, where it's just muscle-memory that, every time I choose to guard, I'll automatically follow up by holding down : and either or . It took time and it took practice.


Which leads me to my next point - you're still getting used to the stick, and you're being bombarded with advice, suggestions, improvements etc, and it's a lot to take-in and I can totally appreciate that. But just keep trying. And when you feel like you've been trying enough, try some more. It's tedious, it feels like work, and it gets tiring, but the results will show themselves if you maintain an open-mind and don't resign yourself to the 'I just can't do it/don't understand it' mentality.

What you need to do is pick one aspect of the game, any aspect at all, upon which you want to improve, and focus just on that. If, for example, you want to focus on improving your ability to punish attacks, then go with it. First, learn what 'punishing' means (which you can do by asking). Next, learn one combo from your character's fastest punishing move (which you can find by asking), and work with it. Every time you find yourself in a position to punish, go for that punisher. You'll mess it up; you'll do it too slowly; you drop the combo afterwards etc... keep doing it. Do it until it's muscle memory. That doesn't mean do it in dojo for an hour and then call it quits - it means take it to actual matches, keep the combo written down next to you and refer to it between every round so it's drilled into your head. Every time the opportunity arises, down panic and resort to your instinctual response - think, force yourself to stop and make the conscious choice to use the move you're practising. Yes, it'll come out way too slow, and that's fine: after it happens a hundred times, your speed will have improved and you'll be conditioning yourself such that, every time you recognise your opponent might be punishable, you're automatically going straight to that move, and then you'll work on the combo following it. It'll be the same process, where you'll mess it up to start with, it'll come out too slow and the wrong move will happen etc, but if you keep working at it, eventually, without even thinking, you'll be making an almost involuntary response to punishable situations whereby you 'just do it'. That's it! You've made progress. You've improved and it's all been worth it. The next step is either to choose a different area on which to work, or to look at more advanced punishment (such as bigger combos from better situations, or setting up side-games etc, but you don't need to concern yourself with that just yet).

Slowly, surely, you will get better, as long as you try and you don't retain a defeatist attitude.

Personally, I'd advise starting by working on the aforementioned 'standing guard throw escape' technique - it'll increase the longevity of your matches and allow you more time to see what's going on and how the game is running. You probably won't consciously comprehend most of it, but continued exposure to the game's flow and mechanics will increase your grasp of how the game flows and how advantage moves back and forth between characters.

 

Why so much 2p in those vids? If you always start your offense with the same move then you're just making it easy for your opponent to beat you.

1p isn't a great move, 66p+k does a better job of beating highs as does 3p+k. You need to hitcheck your 66p, if it hits then go for 666p of you think the opponent will attack, throw if you think they'll evade or freeze up.

 

Ha ha wiki: "Last Modified: Dec 31, 1969 at 4:00 PM (Cached)"

Seriously though, use the glossary at the top of the website instead. It's helped me, especially for looking up Japanese terms.

 

Just watched your videos, and I do agree that you tend to 2p a lot. It's a habit you share with me and whole lot of other players too, so don't get discouraged, but using your 6p elbow instead would be a much better habit to develop.

The other thing is I remember you mentioned that you feel inconsistent when you're playing. I think many players feel that way, when in fact it's the opposite. You have a pretty consistent way of playing, but if your opponent catches on and changes their playstyle, you'll probably find yourself confused because the same person you beat one match seems to be beating you easily in the next one.

VF is the type of game where you really don't need to know an entire character's moveset to be good -- if you understand a few good moves well enough to know the situations to use them, your playstyle should be based completely on the way your opponent fights. For example, if they use a lot of high attacks, switch to moves that go under highs. If they use a lot of strings, block the string and punish with fast attacks. If they use 2p a lot, find moves that punish 2p and use those. A lot of players feel they're inconsistent, but in reality, they're playing too consistently, and getting beaten by players that are better at adjusting.

For example, in the vanessa fight, basically your opponent never stopped attacking -- instead of blocking or side-stepping to try and gain your advantage back after her big moves, you kept trying to 2p after you were hit (usually after being hit you're at a disadvantage) and were punished for it.

In the aoi match, every time that player was knocked on the ground, they got up with an attack, you could have basically won the set by just pressuring every time you knocked her on the ground (like you did to end the second round with 66kk).

I hope this helps -- back when I was starting out, I remember realizing that the more attention I paid to punishing my opponent's patterns and habits, the more matches I would win. It was only later how much I realized how fundamentally important it is to adjust to your opponent as soon as possible.

 

I watched half for the vid against that vanessa player. Biggest things that will improve your game most quickly are this:

1. Make sure when you hit vane with a move that puts you on positive frames on hit, you DO SOMETHING after it hits other than block. You gave away your advantage a ton of times for no reason. I imagine you're just not used to either reacting to the hits or just don't know it's your turn to keep doing something. It can be throw, attack, guard break, anything. Just don't waste your advantage for no reason. This is help you a ton.

2. Block when you're at the disadvantage. If someoen hits you, you need to be blocking. you're doing this already and it relaties to the 1st point. If you're unsure of when you're negative , watch these replays with the frame data on and just look at when you're -ve and +ve. You will need to memorize those moves. No way around that.

3. LEARN THE COMBOS. Don't need to learn all of them at once, but start learning combos that work when you get stuff like 46P or 666P. You dropped a lot of combos that could have been big damage. This is lead to you getting a lot better very quickly.

Notice I left out any defensive stuff. Not because it's not important, I just think you'll see greater improvement in your play right now by focusing on these three things. Defense is higher level stuff and you'll naturally want to focus on your defense as you meet opponents who can deal with your offense better.

My 2 cents

 

Thanks for the link. Another neewbie, just one short question for confirmation. If I interpret it right, the input buffer of 10fr (guard) actually means, that there are no 1fr punishes or links like in SF. There is always a buffer window of more of less 10 frames. So for example, I block the launcher of my opponent, he is at disadv. of -17, my launcher start up is 17. In SF this would be sort of 1fr link, buttons to be pressed on exactly that frame. But in VF the buffer input provides a 10fr window for my respective punish input?

Thank you in advance

 

That's right

VF is really relaxed in the input department.

 

A little late to the party, but I would offer this advice:

1. Know your options and be able to perform them consistently. ie know your moves & combos and be able to remember them and do them >90% of the time. That's the basic use of the training feature.

2. Watch your opponent all the time. Don't watch yourself, ever, under any circumstances.

3. Respect your opponent. He/she's watching you and will change his/her game based on what you do. Expect it.

 

Hmmm, maybe 99% of the time in a match i'm watching the opponent but there's numerous reasons to check your own character. Don't understand why you never would, under any circumstances.

 

Huh, that's a weird thing to say. I never feel like my focus is entirely on one character or the other. I'm not sure what to do with this information.

 

I'd recommend trying to expand your view of the game beyond your character or you opponent's. You want to keep in mind where you are in the stage along with your opponent. This is more important at long range, but it critical to close range game too (it's just easier when you're close). With that said, if I'm looking to whiff punish, I will be looking at my opponent far more closely than anything else on the screen for a short period of time. You also react faster to movement out the corner of your eye than where your eye is focused so you want to try to take advantage of that feature of the human eye.

Another thing you could try is looking at your opponent's hands. You can actually tell when someone is holding guard if you look at the hands and see them go up, you can throw them instead of attacking them. It also helps in hit-checking because their hands will go up first, before you actually make contact with their block.

 

Non-Vs City Setup = No More Guessing on ukemi/non-ukemi Okizeme

"No one can beat the meaty... wait... I mean..."

WELCOME TO AMERICA (and outside Japan), PAL!

(...pound my chest and smack my head at the same time hehe... heh... sigh...)

Translation: When playing next to your opponent (and not "Head to Head" aka "Vs City") where you can see your opponent's hands while playing (or even hear them, if they use an arcade stick or even a Hit Box), it's not hard to see if they are going to stay down on the ground or tech-roll... In FS, this is huge information as "guessing correctly" can lead to either doing an on-the-bounce combo on someone who stays down or forcing your opponent to defend (or else suffer the consequences) against a meaty attack. In this unintended situation, it is probably one of the times where it is truly advantageous to use a gamepad or have a macro button for "ukemi" (techroll/quickrise).

 

Dude. Tricky is talking about the character on the screen. I can see their hands and arms move if G is pressed.

 

That is what I was talking about, but Chanchai is right though. It is highly advantageous to listen to button hits to know if a tech roll is coming or not. Albiet hard to implement, but powerful when you do (i.e. Fuudo/Itazen does it).

Only other hitboxers can listen to a hitbox and know what is going on. We have a lot of extra button presses so it's hard to know exactly what we are doing. I need to work on practicing hitting extra buttons just to throw people off.