I lost all faith in Wolf, I really need help.

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by MrNeoSandman, Apr 2, 2002.

  1. MrNeoSandman

    MrNeoSandman Member

    I start playing with him just for fun, thinking his moves kick ass and stuff, but when I reach 5th kyu, I realize all my kicks and low punches are missing and the Frankensteiner ain't as easy to use as I tought. I know I wan't too predicatble at first but then I tried to change my style a bit and wind up sucking a lot. (Not Wolf, hes great, me, I suck with him)

    Please somebody give me some tips, write a faq or something, just restore my faith in the big guy and make me wanna play again. (P.S. No I ain't trolling, I really need help)
     
  2. Typhoon

    Typhoon Well-Known Member

    Get good at guarding. Wolf is slow. Aside from jabs, your options on counterattack are not nearly as varied as other characters. Know when the openings arise and capitalize.
    Know your throws. Use them.. all of them. If you rely on 2 or 3 you will be broken and punished.
    Know when to throw... this isnt simply throwing after throw-counterable moves, as they can still be escaped. This is about knowing how to set up your opponent with strikes to make them bait for a throw.
    Get good at the wakeup game. Wolf can drop people just as often as Lion is you know how to use him. Wolf is also able to put his own ass on the ground almost as fast as Shun. Know both sides of the wake up game and you can play matches from the floor (whether by choice or not...).
    Abuse his power. Wolf can win with strikes alone because like Jeff he has raw power. This ties in with waiting for an opening through proper guarding. Wolf's elbow will knockdown alot and can give you near-guaranteed down attacks afterward. This is fast and damaging for a poke counterattack, especially for Wolf. Simple but powerful... abuse it.

    I used Wolf for a long time until I got rather bored of his simplicity and glaring lack of 'cool' factor during grudge matches. But he IS effective. I guess it can be said for all characters, but dedication will prevail. It's just that Wolf requires more of this than may be apparent from the get-go.
     
  3. Nemesis02

    Nemesis02 Well-Known Member

    I use wolf as well and I am pretty good with him I think. And my strategy for the boards with no walls or breakable walls is to ring out. Alot of his throws send the opponent flying in the right direction use them when your close to the edge, a lot of his attacks juggle and can easily make it half way across the board in one combo. Learn how to float and use far distanmce thowing to ring out every chance you get,.
     
  4. sayow

    sayow Well-Known Member

    <font color=yellow>Hang in there, MrNeoSandman!

    I've found that the best thing to do when I reach points of frustration is to walk away for a moment, remember that I'm supposed to have fun, think about what the other characters do to take advantage of my playing style and hit the practice mode to work on those things. Then I go back into the Kumite and start kicking butt again. Playing VF should be fun, not work. If you're working here, it's time to take a break.

    Sometimes mental anxiety come when you play specific characters. I get all tense when I play Wolf, Shun Di, Kage and Lion characters. I simply go back and study those characters more and then find ways to play against them more effectively. BTW, Training mode helps tremendously. Revisiting it is not a sign of weakness.</font color=yellow>

    <font color=orange>"If you fail to plan, you're planning to fail."</font color=orange>
     
  5. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    it's simple.... PRACTICE
     
  6. MrNeoSandman

    MrNeoSandman Member

    Well thats exacly what I'm having trouble doing, setting opponent for throws. I'm sick and tired of just using them once in a while cause I have trouble with him and then getting ducked and jabbed by the comp in kumite. Guess I'll have to try and figure out how to use the rest of his moves efficiently than just the K+G button... that and the frankensteiner. I'll print this and try your advices, thanks.

    By the way, if your wondering, he's pretty much the only one I'm having trouble with, I can use the rest of the characters efficiently tough. I just don't really get how to use Wolf's moves. I like them tough, I'll practice more then.
     
  7. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Wolf has a good set of attacks that you might want to use and experiment with. He can do a good amount of damage without relying on throws too much.

    I would personally recommend using throws to counter throw-counterable attacks (Guard and Throw) and using strikes as your primary offensive weapon. You will eventually be able to setup Wolf's throws, but as is... if your opponent is attacking a lot, you probably don't want to worry about throwing too much. Besides, Wolf also has reversals which can be a fun distraction.

    -Chanchai
     
  8. justaNewbie

    justaNewbie Member

    Wolf Kumite CPU-Killing Strategy

    The basic Wolf float combos I tend to use on Akira, Vanessa, and anyone lighter are [f+K, hcb+p~p, u+P] or [f+K|b~f+P+K keeping joystick/d-pad held forward for a P after it launches, b~f+P+K, u+P] for Major Counters (MC) and the "safer" [f+K, d+P, b~f+P+K, u+P] for minor counters (mc) and/or heavy characters. These combos usually do 40-50% damage to the victims apiece.

    However, like Vanessa, Wolf also has a "super-combo" against CPU-controlled Kumite opponents.

    Knock them down and position Wolf just out of range of their rising kick attacks. Right when they get up or start to roll afterwards, input a fully-charged Shoulder Attack [b~f+P (hold P)]. The computer will stand still and block this the vast majority of the time, but will be slightly staggered in the process as long as it's not standing just outside of the Shoulder Attack's range. Immediately after the Shoulder Attack makes contact, input a fully-charged Level Back Chop [press and hold P+K], again, the computer will stand its ground and guard against this move, which will stagger it again. However, inputting the Boby Blow [f+P] immediately after any close-range, fully-charged Level Back Chop connects will always result in a crumple hit that leads to a free low throw.

    At close-range, you usually can't throw out Level Back Chops willy-nilly since they need to be partially charged before the CPU will stand and block them. If you're toe-to-toe with the CPU, it usually initiates an attack of its own before then. However, doing [(hold) P+K] after a successful evade often works unless the opponent continues a combo out of your Level Back Chop's rather short range.

    Another way to go for a crumple hit is via Ballet Kick to Body Blow [f+K+G, f+P], but Wolf doesn't have nearly as much range as he gets from the initial fully-charged Shoulder Attack and the victim has a better chance of recovering before [f+P] connects due to Wolf's distance after the [f+K+G] animation ends (maybe I just don't have the timing tight enough yet, though).

    The ideal low throw to use when you get a crumple is the Tiger Suplex [df+P+K+G], since it's his most damaging and Wolf will roll away afterwards -- usually out of range of the opponent's rising kick attacks and in good position to repeat this process all over again. As an added bonus, the CPU never escapes from a low throw (but when one is preceded by a crumple hit, I'm not sure if it could anyway).

    Another fun option after a crumple is the [df~df+P+K+G] low throw. It does slightly less damage, but can be followed by a guaranteed [d+P+G] ground pickup throw when the victim's feet slide down from Wolf's shoulders just as they hit the ground.

    You can use his other low throws if you want to switch places with the opponent in case Wolf is too close to an edge of the ring.

    The only 100% sure-to-connect attack after using [d+P+G] to pick a face-up opponent off the ground seems to be the Trace Kick [df+K+G]. It rarely hits the CPU for damage, but always succeeds in staggering the victim backwards a step or two (this combined with the initial push from the ground throw may lead to a ring out or wall stagger).

    After [df+K+G] Wolf turns his back on the opponent, so the only sensible (but risky) follow-ups are [d+P] or [d+K], which the CPU almost always blocks unless the Trace Kick staggers it backwards into a wall and the timing is just right. Doing [d+P] is quicker, but has less range (but also less recovery time) than [d+K]. After either connects, you get a free face-down [d+P+G] pick-up throw opportunity.

    If the opponent is pushed far away after the pick-up throw, you may opt to go for a Drop Kick [uf+K] for possible damage or a Missile Kick [uf+K+G] which pushes the opponent back and may lead to a ring out. However, these are sometimes interrupted by the CPU with simple punches.

    So, Wolf's basic CPU-killing combos are:

    [b~f+P (hold P), (hold) P+K, f+P, df+P+K+G] -- the "bread and butter" combo; repeat until opponent is knocked out

    [b~f+P (hold P), (hold) P+K, f+P, df~df+P+K+G, d+P+G, df+K+G] -- for ring outs

    [b~f+P (hold P), (hold) P+K, f+P, df~df+P+K+G, d+P+G, df+K+G, (opponent hits wall), d+P|d+K, d+P+G] -- to set up possible back-turned float combo

    The opponent's back-turned scenario after [d+P+G] grabs a face-down opponent is actually harder to follow up on reliably (occasionally due to camera angle switches that may occur in the smaller rings). Sometimes the victims are pushed far away, and sometimes they remain close by. When they're close, go for a knee. The worst that can happen is they'll turn and block it and you'll have to go into an evade afterwards. When they're pushed far away, I guess you can go for [df+K+G] again, but I have limited success with that and usually go for a Drop Kick [uf+K] instead. Oddly enough, if the Drop Kick is blocked Wolf will be lying face-down feet-towards, and the CPU is sometimes bad about letting a "rising" [d+K~K~K] kick connect afterwards, which leads to yet another ground pickup throw.

    Also, a somewhat cheap(er) tactic you may want to exploit when a CPU opponent is moderately close to the edge of an open ring is to input a quick Shoulder Attack immediately after a fully-charged Back Level Chop makes contact and forces the opponent to stagger [optional b~f+P (hold P), (hold) P+K, b~f+P (tap P)]. You can even skip the Back Level Chop between the two Shoulder Attacks if you want and still have a high success rate. If the second one hits that's great; back off and set up another. However, even when the opponent manages to recover and block the second one it will still push them back a good distance before they wind up alongside Wolf and that may be just enough for a ring out. (Beware, if Wolf steps out of the ring before the CPU opponent lands after a successful Shoulder Attack, you'll lose the round.)

    -------

    There's a lot more you can do with Wolf, but that's pretty much all that's needed to pound on the CPU and get through the kyu/dan ranks in Kumite mode. Of course, any additional skills you have (blocking attacks and combo strings effectively, punch interrupts into throws, working in low throws after blocked sweep attempts, etc.) make you that much more likely to succeed in moving up the ranks. Once you get proficient at doing everything outlined in this strategy, especially evading and counterattacking afterwards, you should have a much easier time earning higher ranks in Kumite mode.
     
  9. justaNewbie

    justaNewbie Member

    If you've been stuck at 1st Dan for a while (or any of the early Dan levels), you either have tremendously bad luck and whatever power controls the universe is determined to see you fail, or there's the far more likely explanation that you aren't evading at the right times or you're simply not evading at all. Here's an effective, proven evading strategy...

    When Should I Evade?

    There are four times you always want to evade to avoid a physical counterattack from a CPU-controlled opponent. They are:

    1 -- The opponent blocks a move that would have knocked them into the air for a float combo follow-up if it had hit them.

    2 -- The opponent blocks the final strike from one of your character's "canned combos" that doesn't include a spinning kick at the end (like Lau's/Pai's P~P~P~K|d+K combos).

    3 -- The opponent blocks or is hit by a high or low rising kick.

    4 -- The opponent blocks or is hit by a low kick (or the final low kick for characters that can string two in a row together); again, not if the second low kick is the spinning type like Pai's [K~K while holding down].

    Exactly When/How Do I Input the Evade Command?

    Let the joystick/d-pad return to center while whichever move listed above is executing. After it contacts the opponent quickly tap up or down (letting the joystick/d-pad immediately return to the neutral position afterwards) while your character is returning to its "default" standing position. In the case of regular knees [f+K] this is when your character starts falling back to the ground again. With other moves it's while your character retracts the attacking limb(s).

    What Happens Afterwards?

    Until you get beyond the Dan ranks, around 90% of the time (probably higher) the CPU opponent will attempt a physical attack during your character's recovery time after the four scenarios outlined above. A successful evade will sidestep this incoming attack and put you in position to follow up with the combo of your choosing. Float combos work especially well after evades since ones with quick opponent-launching strikes will usually count as a major counter (MC) hit and loft him/her even higher than normal. You can also do standing combos, and even regular throws have a good chance of connecting as long as the opponent's missed move/combo doesn't make them duck or carry them out of range.

    Will This Really Make a Difference In My Game?

    Think about it. If you can set up a free combo/throw opportunity the vast majority of the time after the moves listed above make contact with the opponent instead of remaining stationary and playing a high/low guessing game with the opponent's inevitable counterattack, how can you not do better?

    I'm playing Wolf and was stuck between 1st and 2nd Dans for quite a while, lowering my victory percentage down to 65%. Now I'm a Thunderlord, and although the opponents have gotten tougher than the kyu/early Dan opponents I was facing before (I'm now up against high-level Dans, Conquerors, Vanquishers, various "lords," High Kings, and even a match against Dural) my victory percentage is at 83% and continues to improve (although opponents now sometimes throw me before I can evade... looks like I'll have to start working in those throw escapes).

    I'm 100% certain evading at every available opportunity will improve your game and get you out of "low-Dan limbo" if it's the primary element missing from your fighting strategy. Try it and see for yourself.
     
  10. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    Re: real help with Wolf. Aoooh!

    go to Media Section here! check out Pyrexia link and there you will find five rounds of <font color=white>Vanessa vs. SusukinoLau's Wolf</font color=white> W0w! This is one of the best VF4 vids I have ever had the pleasure of watching. You can't help but learn from these two players. The Wolf employed by Susukino is marvelous! You will be inspired to practice WH. <font color=red>"I'll Raise You for your Strength!"</font color=red>
     
  11. Chan415

    Chan415 Active Member

    did u watch those wolf replays in replay mode?
     
  12. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Great stuff justa. Quick and dirty kumite killing guide. I like it.

    the CPU never escapes from a low throw (but when one is preceded by a crumple hit, I'm not sure if it could anyway)

    You said it. AFAIK, the CPU never escapes low throws... very unrealistic IMO, especially with the way they double/triple throw escape vs. standing throws. But a human player will escape out of low throws after they are crumpled. You cannot struggle to quicken the time it takes to get out of a kazure down animation, so there's nothing else to do but enter low throw escapes. The PS2 training mode confirms that you can do multiple low throw escapes, so low throwing a crumpling skilled human opponent can become quite difficult.

    Low punch interrupt into any standing throw will also get you very far in kumite with any character.

    Instead of using the "standard" turn toward attacks when Wolf has his back exposed, try experimenting with entering in attacks as if you were facing the opponent to begin with. I don't know Wolf well enough, but if a command motion involves a joystick tap up, down, or toward your opponent, Wolf will automatically turn around and do the attack you want. Another way to do this is to tap G quickly and then the attack you want. Tapping G forces your character to automatically align himself to his opponent. Your options are NOT as limited as you imply.

    Your follow-up post on dodging is also a good point. Since you're at the point of dodging at the correct times, it shouldn't take long or much practice to add in the throw escapes during your dodges when you think your opponent may go for a minor counter throw instead of a striking attack. (If anyone is confused about this, check out the PS2 training exercise on escape(dodge) - throw escape - guard.)
     
  13. justaNewbie

    justaNewbie Member

    Re: real help with Wolf. Aoooh!

    Where exactly is this Vanessa vs. Wolf movie file? Can you provide a direct link to it? Also, is it an mpeg or some other format?
     
  14. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    Re: real help with Wolf. Aoooh!

    It's at <a target="_blank" href=http://www.pyrexia.com/vf4/>http://www.pyrexia.com/vf4/</a>

    Click "download", and click the tab on the page.
     
  15. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    Re: Wolf vs. Vanessa battle

    It would be awesome if a really good Wolf player would describe each round in detail. SusukinoWolf uses only one of the Prima Strat Guides mentioned Wolf combos. The other f+K (Knee)[float!!!] combos are just terrific. The off the wall combos are inspiring too. Vanessa seems to stay in DS (defensive stance) throughout the battle.
    5 rounds of very close battle!
     
  16. justaNewbie

    justaNewbie Member

    Re: Vanessa vs Wolf Match

    I'm still having trouble downloading the "Vanessa vs. SusukinoLau's Wolf" match video.

    If I click the "DOWNLOAD" graphic, it takes me to a page with some text on it, but no links and no tabs (http://www.pyrexia.com/vf4/dl.cgi), just non-english text (I checked the source code, too).

    There's another link further down that leads to what I assume is a message board (http://www.pyrexia.com/vf4/small.cgi?act=list is the first page). There are references to several Susukinolau matches on these pages, but again there are no links (or tabs) for me to click on to actually see those matches either.

    So, I apparently either need an exact address to download the file from, or for someone to post it someplace I can retrieve it via a http/ftp connection. However these pages are supposed to function doesn't seem to be working for me. Do I need to modify my browser settings (using IE5 for Mac)? Can anyone help?
     
  17. justaNewbie

    justaNewbie Member

    Re: Kumite CPU-Killing Strategy with Wolf

    > Yupu -- Great stuff justa. Quick and dirty kumite killing guide. I like it.

    Oh, it gets better! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    You can repeatedly do charge moves like fully-charged Shoulder Attacks (or even easier [P+K]s) over and over to postion/angle the opponent for a ring out or wall impact opportunity.

    Furthermore, after the "standard" [f+K|b~f+P+K keeping joystick/d-pad held forward for a P after it launches, b~f+P+K] combo, which always connects after a fully-charged [P+K], any time a pounce would connect after that you can get a [d+P+G] ground pickup throw instead. Abusing the CPU this way leads to really easy ring out victories.

    Also, doing the same float combo and knocking the victim into a wall makes them land face-down, so a [d+P+G] pickup leads to a back-turned combo opportunity. Even better, due to the small size of the fenced ring where you fight in the shallow water, against lighter opponents you can start each round with:

    [f+K, P, b~f+P+K, d+P+G (light opponent will hit fence and fall face-down), f+K (into opponent's back, but not guaranteed), b~f+P+K, u+P]

    Again, keep holding forward after the initial [f+K] to get more distance during the [P]. If the whole thing connects, it's around 80% damage. Not bad for an opening combo, huh? /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  18. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    Re: Vanessa vs Wolf Match

    awesome mpeg chibita vs. susukino Wolf. <font color=white>CreeD</font color=white> has it on his ftp. The vanessa vs. Wolf is gone from Pyrexia. /versus/images/icons/frown.gif. I tried to save the vid after viewing but it was not retrievable. [crying]. Hopefully CreeD or FeixaQ saved this important battle.
     
  19. sayow

    sayow Well-Known Member

    Re: Vanessa vs Wolf Match

    <font color=yellow>It was pretty cool vid, nycat. Some of the Vanessa play was worth taking not of. I can't say that the Wolf play was all that breathtaking. Vanessa ended up taking the match 3-2. Both characters are still worthy of extended study and observation.</font color=yellow>
     
  20. Kali

    Kali Well-Known Member

    Re: Vanessa vs Wolf Match

    Kumite... Hmm.. Try with K+G on the beginnig of the round - CPU likes to eats this... Or even more - try with f+K+G, and then...:

    f+K+G, f+P+K, db+P+G+K, b,f+K+G - takes a lot from his lifebar.

    CPU has problems not only with max charged moves - like Wolf's b,f+P / b.df+P/ fully charged P+K moves (and follow up's), but also with... Axe Lariat! From proper distance (Wolf sholud end this move slight after opponent's back), it should connect (and it's unblockable:), even though enemy is FC!!! Then - u+P, backdash/crouch backdash and again - f,f+P,u+P....

    All above should work in most cases up to 10th dan/little monarch opponents...
     

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