I love VF4....but

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by MAXIMUM, Jul 4, 2002.

  1. MAXIMUM

    MAXIMUM Well-Known Member

    While I love VF4 to bits I still find myself missing the variable height terrain from VF3. I just found the fights felt a bit more dynamic in VF3. Positioning and evading was much more of an issue, and the fighting backdrops were much more interesting as a result. I don't think any of VF4's stages match something like Aoi's snowy stage from VF3.....you never seemed to tire of it.

    Dodging is another thing. While I agree with the more accessible 3-button system, dodging in VF4 is a real pain in the arse. I definately feel I have less control over my fighter when moving in and out of the screen in VF4.

    Obviously the game is a masterpiece in its own right, but I still reckon Sega could have left the 3D \terrain without compromising the new system. I'd like to see it come back for VF5.

    I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what are other people's feeling on this?
     
  2. ono

    ono Well-Known Member

    well i dont know about the levels being not quite as rewarding, but i think the training, and basic fighting techniques (guard, punch, kick, evade, etc.) are just as rewarding. i never played VF3, but if what you say is true, i still think the fighting engine in VF4 makes up for it.
     
  3. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    ehehe you're right, it's been discussed before... you prolly should read the old posts. A search for "miss the E button" and "hate the flat stages" will probably get you lots of results /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    If I'm remembering right, most people agreed with you, the flat stages just don't look as nice. It's inevitable that the stages felt more bland.
    It's cool that the gameplay isn't complicated in VF4 by slope, since that was to some extent a random element added to the match. (my opinion, not necessarily the overall opinion).
    For me, an ideal stage would have slope, yet the effect on gameplay would be miniscule. Then the arenas wouldn't look so... artificial-fighting-arena-like. How much more interesting might sarah's stage have been if it were a large circular collosseum with rails or platform, and you simply got pushed to the left or right until you hit a wall after a great deal of scrolling? And what's wrong with jeffry's island being irregular/oval? It's still a ringout stage, but just not as neat as VF3's. Ditto Lau's, it doesn't feel like part of the great wall anymore.

    Well anyway, I'll stop bitching, it's been bitched about before.
    As for the E button, it seems like more than half the responses were "it's gone, tough shit, get over it"... but I'm with you, I like the absolute lack of ambiguity that having an E button gave. The up or down taps seem elegant as a concept, but for practical purposes having the button is superior. Still, the current system is fine, and I'm sure the attitude for VF5 will be "the three button and all-direction-joystick-movement is so elegant, and it ain't broken so why should we fix it?"... I doubt we'll see E again, unless japanese players have been quietly pestering sega about it.
     
  4. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Peronsally, I like the E-button where it currently is -- on another game. (which one, I'm not sure). Four buttons just seems like a lot to keep up with.

    I wonder if it was easier for AM2 to code logic where you can only dodge when attacked.
     
  5. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    yes, VF3's movement system really gave the game a sense of 3D space and will never be forgotten..

    remember that ECD is still concluded into VF4 which is imo more effective.. counter dodging seems more reliable in evading a blow to me.. i guess it's all about adaptation, but *nothing* can replace the fast pace of dodglet evading & k-step monuvers.
     
  6. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    My thoughts...

    Positioning -- bigger issue in VF3

    Dodging attacks -- bigger issue in VF4

    -Chanchai
     
  7. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    It's my opinion that there was some kind of conspiracy in the Sega ranks when VF4 came out, relating to the E Button's removal. I'd personally love to sit down with the guys who decided to drop it and present them with the list they themselves drew up only a few years earlier, which detailed the reasons to include an E button. I remember the last line of that document was roughly translated to:
    "The ultimate reason to use E button is because the argument to use it is so overwhelmingly strong that it would be foolish not to use it."

    /bitch mode deactivated

    So, as you may have guessed, Maximum, I am in preference of the E button...

    I think the only reason someone could argue against it lies in logic that is something along the lines of: "without it, we can concentrate on direct fighting, not dodging". However, I would argue that no one is _forced_ to use fancy dodges or even K-Stepping in VF3. There are many people who played a direct style in VF3 without feeling the need to incorporate unnecessarily OTT dodging into their play.

    The other main argument - and one that has cropped up again in this very thread - is "I can't cope with 4 buttons: it's simpler with 3". This is a weak argument, in my opinion. In practically every other fighting game (i.e. besides VF1, VF2, VF4) there are >3 buttons to use, and I've never, ever heard of a Tekken or Street Fighter player complaining that 4 (or even 6) buttons is too many. And think about other genres of games today. Not many use only three buttons, and I'm sure people have no trouble.

    Of course, I could list the advantages to the E Button, but it seems (after having read other threads on this subject) that I would be either:
    a) preaching to the converted
    b) preaching to people (i.e. certain VF4 players, etc.) who are blind to the advantages, and do not want to hear that there is actually an infinitely more intuitive, easy to pick up way of incorporating 3D movement into a fighting game than simply copying elements from Soul Calibur, etc.

    Of course, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. I've just never heard a strong argument of using 3 vs 4 buttons (I'm not talking about VF2, though - that works fine with 3).

    /rant mode disengaged
     

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