Ice-9: Problem with reading posts?

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Guest, Dec 13, 1999.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ice-9: There are two threads that indicate they got new posts today (Dec 13) at 02:17 and 02:00; these are respectively the ones with the titles "the truth" and "To Jeff." But I can't read or find the new posts in the thread. What do I do to rectify the problem? Or is there one? The reason I ask, is that I noticed who signed the last message that was posted before these two, and I was wondering if there was any connection there to my not being able to access two more posts. I hope censorship was not involved, since you have repeatedly stated that is not your policy, and I regard you as a person of integrity.
    Imashroom
     
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Imashroom, I noticed this as well. Even though I have admin priveleges on this board, I will state that I haven't deleted any posts from these threads. However, I can think of a couple of reasons which may explain what happened:

    1) A registered user posted a message, but then decided to delete it.
    2) A registered user edited their message within the thread.

    Apart from that, I don't know. Jeff?

    __
    m y k e
    how ya gonna win when ya ain't right within?
     
  3. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Two of those threads had been replied to by someone claiming to be "Miss Sat Tired" which I promptly deleted. Those messages had no valid content and were specifically written to incite ill feeling. Moroever, those messages were sent via a remote proxy server, so I don't have the user's true IP address.

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You missed one of "Miss Sat Tired"'s recent posts. He shares the same ip as "Wolfstudent". Interesting.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ::Two of those threads had been replied to by someone claiming to be "Miss Sat Tired" which I promptly deleted. Those messages had no valid content and were specifically written to incite ill feeling.::
    That never stopped you from allowing postings before. Rich certainly never had a problem when he made such attacks. Would you like me to direct you to some that can still be found on the message board? Miss Sat Tired was a regular poster during the summer. Controversial yes, but not without purpose. How do you know what her intent was? Haven't you seen enough instances in recent weeks where the intent of a message was misinterpreted? I recall when you first encountered her, you asked her to tone down and save her satire until needed. The two posts in question seem to be ideal for such an appearance. Both are filled with pomposity, and one with bitterness. What better food for satire? Censorship is precisely when someone determines content is not valid. It's biased by the viewpoint of the person making that decision. I could argue that many of the discussions you engaged in recently were of no valid content. I respect that this is your site, but I wish you'd state the rules of engagement and stick to them. If you want the site to grow, then equal treatment is the seed. I am, to say the least, disappointed. You seem to be very sensitive lately. If money is the problem, solicit. I'll gladly pay for an uncensored message board. If you insist on saying it's my bat and ball and you better play by my rules, more of us will look for another field to play on. I think what you did was morally wrong, no matter the content of the messages. I suppose this message will put me on your "enemies" list, but that is not my intent. I've always respected the courage you've shown in runnnig this little city and in allowing free speech. This act you took today strikes me as cowardly. Does this mean I get censored too?

    ::Moroever, those messages were sent via a remote proxy server, so I don't have the user's true IP address.::

    I don't know what a true IP address is. There are people who have posted here using commercial computer locations (NYCREW?). Those are certainly not "true" IP addresses. And you allowed Miss Sat Tired's response to Hiro. Probably from the same IP address? Are you sure her message there wasn't equally offensive? (Or maybe it was just Hiro worship.) Can you read Polish? (See Rich's message there.) Do we have to find a foreign language to write in before we can feel free to say whatever we want? I'll likely regret saying all this tomorrow, but I get irate when I see censorship from a site originating in America, the so-called home of free speech. And this is not a pro-America speech; it's a pro-speech speech.
    I apologize to anyone who has taken offense at my harangue. I only want to save this site from where it seems to be falling. Silence is for lambs, not for those lion about in the mane stay. The seventh seal is not a sea lion, but a TA kick in the asses. Eat graham crackers or project a mouthful. The symbol on a Nabisco box is an egg with a double cross. Now is the time to shake the box.(All enigmatic and cryptic messages intended. How else can I write without worrying about who I might offend?)
    Anybody else as angry as I am?
    I-madshroom (who uses a reel ISP:"It's Some Picture")
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Maybe you should email Jeff and perhaps ask him to send you a copy of the "msgs" before posting your flame here. Sensorship happens in many web boards and so far these seem to be the first few Ice has deleleted.

    People please take it easy, especially during a "sensitive" time like now.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You share the same propensity towards making god-awful puns that Miss Sat Tired had. Interesting.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ::You missed one of "Miss Sat Tired"'s recent posts. He shares the same ip as "Wolfstudent". Interesting.::
    Yeah, but not important. Other people here use/share the same computer. BTW,ice-9 isn't this post from anonymous one with no valid content intended to incite ill feeling? Is the IP real? Don't know, there's no "signature." Shall we play search the messages to find someone with the same IP? And if we fail, should we conclude it's a phony? Now go ahead and flame me. Asbestos U can.
    Imashroom
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ::You share the same propensity towards making god-awful puns that Miss Sat Tired had. Interesting.::
    Okay, now we're not allowed to make puns. Got it. Do you know how many people on this planet pun? Also, you just got through claiming matching IP numbers as alleged evidence. Of course the fact that the IP numbers for me and MST don't match is now proof there's a connection. You know what this kind of logic is called? Oh by the way, you share the same propensity for paranoia and inane remarks as Rich does. Interesting..
    And hey ice-9, isn't this the second post from anonymous with no valid content and with the obvious intent of inciting ill will that wasn't immediately deleted? Your silence is sad. Hypocrisy.
    Imashroom
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh, and if anybody wants to believe I am MST or Santa Claus or Carrot Top (who puns all the time), I have no problem with that. Go right ahead. Me and MST and Santa and Carrot will all feel proud.
    Imashroom
     
  11. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    This is the part where I feel like deleting the whole thread.

    In previous times, I had been wary of the pre-existing VF community. I realize that I was the new guy coming in and trying to set a new establishment for the community. So I was very timid and tried to shy away from controversy as much as possible.

    I was under the impression that the pre-existing community did not like censorship or moderation--especially from a young, relatively unknown guy like me. So when flame posts were raging back and forth, I stood by and did nothing.

    Well, a year has passed and I've been around. I've attended the Chicago Gathering II, the New York Gathering, the Omaha Gathering, and I've just about met every VF player still "in the scene" in America. Hopefully I am no longer considered a "newbie".

    While I was arguing with Hyun, Dodee, and Rich, I was doing so with the express purpose of trying to clarify the purpose of this forum, its place on the 'Net, and Dodee and Rich were trying to inform me of a community that I previously did not know existed (the #vfhome community). So even though voices were raised, I hoped to believe that a good thing was being done.

    The same goes for the argument that went back and forth yourself, Imashroom, and KBCat.

    But this recent appearance of MST, on the other hand, did nothing of the sort. I could not see the point MST was trying to make, except to further embroil this forum in needless debate. The MST of old, for example, at least had a goal--and that was to quell the "old timers" from bashing the new--but this recent incarnation of MST did nothing of the sort. My conclusion was this poster was just trying to make trouble, so I took action.

    Anyone who frequents Blast City knows how I moderate that place. I am fairly strict and efficient and as a result conversation seems to go smoothly and cordially. When I saw MST's posts, I decided to try the Blast City approach and take control before letting things get worse.

    But I do recognize that VC is fundamentally different than BC, so I am not going to do exactly the same thing.

    So here are a few guidelines that I will be using from now on.

    [*]Posts that are written specifically to put down another poster with no content will be deleted.

    [*]Posts that do put down another poster but brings up a point will be edited with a warning attached.

    [*]I wll NOT edit, delete, or censor on the basis of content, but on the delivery of that content.

    [*]Because this is a much smaller community than the one at Blast City, and because everyone knows everyone, I will not put restrictions on the language being used here. But call another person a little shit, and don't be surprised to see it edited out.

    For the longest time, this board had existed peacefully and conversation was productive. I don't see why we can't always be that way. If any one has any questions or comments, feel free to add it here.

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ice-9: I sent you an e-mail message this morning before reading your post to this thread. You can ignore most of what I said there, since you addressed my concerns here. Based on what little I know, I don't agree with what you did to the deleted messages, but I support what you are now trying to do now. I think it should have been done a long time ago. Hopefully we can restore our former peace. And just for the record, you've never met me, and I am not MST (either incarnation) or Wolfstudent or Chanchai or anonymous. I have never posted at this site anonymously or by using any other name, ever.
    Imashroom
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    >>You missed one of "Miss Sat Tired"'s recent posts. He shares the same ip as "Wolfstudent". Interesting.>>
    Good morning. I want to introduce myself. My name is Steve Hoover and I am a seventeen year old high school senior at Cumberland Valley High School. I have been posting here under the name Wolfstudent. I use our high school computer (which can be used by any student/faculty) as I do not have access to one at home. That is why I can't register and don't have an e-mail address. We have a video game club here at the school, and fighting games are very popular, because they don't take much time to finish, are re-playable, and multi-playable. VF3tb is the most popular of the games we play. I have been chosen as the club secretary and so I am the designated question asker for VF3 questions. So when I ask a question here, it may not be mine originally, but someone has asked me to find an answer. Now the main reason I am writing is to straighten out this MST connection. I did not post anything using the name Miss Sat Tired. However, everybody in the club is aware of her posts. During our summer club meetings, which the school sponsored, we used to read her posts and found her funny and interesting (usuallly). We like the way she stuck up for newbies. So it is possible that someone else from our club decided to post a message using her name, but it wasn't me. That would explain the similarity in IP numbers. And it certainly wouldn't have been the "real" MST.
    I know I write like an adult, but I am just a teenager, as are the rest of the club members. So sometimes we act like adolescents. Hopefully ice-9 you will understand, being only 19 yourself.
    I also found the comment in this thread about imashroom and MST using puns to be interesting. My creative writing teacher says puns are a sign of high verbal intellect, and they are used by great writers like James Joyce, Lewis Carroll, Thomas Pynchon, Art Buchwald, etc. She encourages the use of word play. Just thought I'd mention this. And just because I am defending how somebody writes, doesn't mean I know them or am them. I don't personally know any of the posters here, including MST and imashroom.
    We also had a discussion about all of this censorship problems in our creative writing class. (We are allowed to choose topics for class discussion.)My teacher said it is better to not stifle creativity. That protecting the rights of those who make rude posts, as bad as they may be, actually helps the rights of the rest of us. She said she felt it was wrong to censor a post, unless it violated the law. It was even worse to do if there had been no previous censorship. This could be perceived as favoritism; protecting some but not others. I showed her a copy of ice-9's rules, and her response was it was his decision to make since he owns this place, but that he should have posted those rules before deleting somebody's message. She also asked us not to post any improper messsages using our school computer.
    I hope this message will allow us to keep asking questions, and that you guys will continue to help us. Remember, we are the next generation of VFers. When we hit college, we can carry on your tradition.
    Wolfstudent
     
  14. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Wolfstudent, from reading your post, I feel much more encouraged about the future. I am pleasantly surprised to find that a club exists in your school and that VF3tb is a popular game of choice (usually unlikely).

    I acknowledge the concerns you bring up regarding censorship, and I do regret not posting a warning first that my attitude towards how this board will be governed was going to change. I can also reassure you that no one will be exempted from the rules I have outlined above, and that I will try to remain as objective as possible in making judgements of what is and is not excessive. What happened in the past is in the past, and I hope to see a calmer and more rational Versus City. My aim is to spur debate and conversation, not flame wars. Rather than stifle creativity, I hope to encourage it in an environment where a poster would feel comfortable in contributing in much the same way that scholars and academics were able to re-emerge from the Dark Ages only after stability--and consequently, safety--was reinstated.

    And finally, a question: Where is Cumberland Valley High located? I wish to know where the next generation of VFers will come from. /images/icons/wink.gif

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ice-9: Cumberland Valley HS is in Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
    Wolfstudent
     
  16. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Interesting. Is it be a military high school or related to the military in some way?

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    >> Is it be a military high school or related to the military in some way?>>
    No. But we hold some of our club meetings on an adjacent base. They have donated computers and recreation space to our school.
    Why do you ask? Are we in trouble with them?
    Wolfstudent
     
  18. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Nope, not a problem...

    ice-9 | Sennin
     

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