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If an airplane.....(done before)

Discussion in 'General' started by TheWorstPlayer, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. TheWorstPlayer

    TheWorstPlayer Well-Known Member

    Imagine a plane is sat on the beginning of a massive conveyor belt/travelator type arrangement, as wide and as long as a runway, and intends to take off. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation.

    There is no wind.
    Can the plane take off?
     
  2. AnimalStaccato

    AnimalStaccato Well-Known Member

    No because if it's not moving forward the wings would not be providing lift right?
     
  3. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    No one knows, just let it go.
     
  4. AkiraZero

    AkiraZero Well-Known Member

  5. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This video contains content from Vevo, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. </div></div>
     
  6. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

  7. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    Then the answer is no. That mythbuster thing is bollocks. Such a poor experiment. The plane clearly travels forward, in which case gains velocity relative to the air around it. If a treadmill existed as discribed by TWP in his post then the difference between the planes velocity and the air around it would be minimal to zero, so no lift.
     
  8. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

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    The plane will fly if it can move through the air. It does not matter how fast the tires on the ground are spinning (provided they don't explode from over-speeding), how fast the treadmill is moving, or even if the treadmill was going backwards. None of these things keep the plane from moving through the air. The plane's power (jet or prop) and aerodynamic surfaces (wings) act on the air around them. It does not act on the ground.

    If a plane was flying through the air at 300 mph and a 300 mph wind kicked up from behind and blew the same direction the plane was heading, the plane would drop like a rock even though it was traveling forward at 300 mph.
     
  9. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    Whoops just reread. saw the problem before and that was PLANE. The wheels would move at twice the usual and provided they stayed intact, the plane would accelerate and then fly. [​IMG]

    P.S. Mythbuster thing still bullshit though.
     
  10. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    It totally was. the plane was moving forward at the same time the "treadmill" was moving. I just posted it for giggles.

    Mythbusters is fun to watch but their science leaves a lot to be desired.
     
  11. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

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    The plane takes off in every case. Which was kind of what they proved in mythbusters.

    Plague's explanation is correct. The only thing that matters to airplane's flight is its speed in relation to air. And the propeller will move the plane forward in relation to air in the scenario no matter what the wheels and the belt are doing, since it interacts only with the air. If conveyor belt was moving forward with same speed as the plane at all times then the plane would take off with its wheels unmoving.

    If the plane was in an airtunnel where the air was moving past the plane with the takeoff speed, the plane would rise and fly without moving an inch forward. (you can test this yourself by throwing a paper airplane against wind of suitable speed, needs one with proper wings though)

    I was confused about this myth when I was watching cause I wasnt sure what exactly were they trying to prove.
     
  12. Hazzerone

    Hazzerone Well-Known Member

    The plane could not possibly take off if it was being hijacked by a load of Somalians.
     
  13. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    Manji, how can you say it takes off in every case yet agree with Plague who is basically saying that it won't take off?

    It's already been said but if you don't have sufficient airflow at the required speed over the entire wing surface then you cannot generate lift.
     
  14. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    Plague is saying it will take off. His point is that the treadmill won't limit the speed of the plane enough as the planes force acts on the air no the treadmill
     
  15. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    Ah, you're right.

    I fell for the red herring thinking the treadmill was supposed to keep the plane stationary, but then felt stupid when I remembered the wheels are not what give the plane it's forward thrust, it's the engine(s).

    Stupid myth :p
     
  16. AnimalStaccato

    AnimalStaccato Well-Known Member

    That fooled me before as well. It's a bit of a misnomer putting in wheels and a travelator when wheels don't have jackshit to do with moving a plane forward.
     

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