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I'm thinking Lion might be the best.

Discussion in 'Lion' started by TexasLion, Jul 31, 2002.

  1. TexasLion

    TexasLion Well-Known Member

    The guy is incredibly fast, has a ton of highs and lows, has great priority, good combos, and he recovers from his moves pretty fast. Whenever I play him I can win a lot more easily than with any one else. And I'm playing against good people.

    Here's a question - does Chibita play any one else as good as he plays Lion? Cause if he's like me, Lion comes easy and everyone else takes a lot more effort. I can still play other characters, but not as well as Lion.

    Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not saying Lion is unbeatable, just that he has more advantages and fewer weaknesses than everyone else.
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So you like lion,I hate Lion.Hes a good fighter but annoying.I like Akira much better. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif
  3. cooks94

    cooks94 Well-Known Member

    So your Zero999, i hate Zero999. Hes really anoying. Id rather be eaten by a cow than have you posting 1 sentence timewasting responses. /versus/images/icons/mad.gif
  4. Foondogg

    Foondogg Well-Known Member

    Tell me... Do you go to all of the posts spouting off that you hate all the other characters and that Akira is the only one worthy of playing???
  5. TexasLion

    TexasLion Well-Known Member

    Thanks for sticking to the topic guys....appreciate it.


    Does any one have an opinion though, on what I wrote? Cause after playing this game since it came out, and playing or playing against all the characters, this is what I've come up with. Lion just seems to have an advantage over a lot of the other characters. So far, only Wolf or Jeffrey seems to give him any trouble just because they're so powerful and they can low throw him.
  6. Akira_Zero

    Akira_Zero Well-Known Member

    I agree with you. Lion is a very good character to play as. He is good offensively with his variety of low attacks that chip away health or big damage combos that stem from his b,b+k float. His Meteor Punch makes for a good defense that sabakis a lot of attacks. IMO one of the most balanced characters in the game. Oh, his voice is only annoying if you play against him but once u start using and winning with him it won't get annoying anymore. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
  7. lau_fists

    lau_fists Well-Known Member

    Lion would be great if he was built like a man and not a 12 year old
    boy with the voice to match. I'm just saying that because I'd be playing
    Lion if he was, well, a better overall character.

    But you're right, Lion's strong, with his offensive base coming from low to
    the ground, so he automatically avoids a lot of high strikes, and he has great
    mobility, reach, and that obviously insectile speed to mix it up. I can understand your
    enthusiasm. There are other characters I'd like to be good with, but I'm best with
    Lei Fei. It's just automatic, and strange, and I suppose it's based on how the brain
    interprets the character information. You may have to work harder to figure out
    another character, but with Lion you've a natural affinity.
  8. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Well, I guess Lion is the best for you. Cause the way you play his style fits your style. Good that you found a character that fits you. I'm still finding out who's the best for me hehe.. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No i don't.I like Lion a little bit but you guys don't have to say bad stuff about me.I like Akira the Most so what but I still think lion is a great fighter.He has awesome attacks like /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif and others like a awesome throw I think its/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif.I'm not a bad guy.Maybe you could forgive me for saying that I hate Lion.I acually don't.
  10. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Lion's a pretty strong character, but he does have his weaknesses -- mainly, that he doesn't have a high damage combo that starts mid, other than /versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif which can be tricky to get in -- and it has to counter to float. Lion was my main character for a LONG time, but I found that all these punk ass Jacky & Lau's around my area have the edge on Lion. Namely w/ Lau's abusive elbow, and for both of them, getting elbowed to hell after a low-sweep. I got sick of this shit and made Aoi my main character. Now I inashi those elbows and laugh. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
  11. TexasLion

    TexasLion Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I figure Jacky and Lau are pretty even with Lion (making them the top 3 characters). I also hate it when they block my low hit and counter with elbow + whatever, but that just means you can't abuse his low attacks anymore. When that happens, I just stick with quick pokes and throws, and only when they miss a move will I go for a low hit. Sometimes I'll guess a low hit, but if I get punished for it, I quickly learn to stay away from it.

    The thing is, I haven't played a really good Lau player yet, so I could be wrong about him not having an advantage over Lion. I know he has an advantage over Wolf, though, cause his speed and power just overwhelm the guy.

    But not to knock the guy, but I think that's why Chibita wins a lot, because Lion is so strong. If he was winning with anyone else besides Lion, Jacky, or Lau, I'd be really impressed, but he's playing a character that from what I can tell, has an advantage over a lot of the other guys. Just personally, I have to limit my Lion playing just because I think it's unfair most of the time since he's a little too good. I have to play Aoi or Wolf just to even things out a little bit. If they play Jacky or Lau, then I have no problem playing Lion since that's an even match, but if they play any one else, then if it's not a tourney, I'll usually just stick with someone I think is less powerful.
  12. Foondogg

    Foondogg Well-Known Member

    How do you expect me to react when you come into all the posts spouting off, "I hate _______________ (insert character name here), he is crap. Akira is the best and no one else is worthy to be played." ???

    And this isnt the only post where you did this. I believe you made a post in the 112 Damage Lei Fei Combo thread that said, "I hate Lei Fei, he is cheap"

    Well, let me be the first one to say that no one cares what characters you think are cheap.
  13. Aeon

    Aeon Well-Known Member

    Hmmm... Lion...

    Well, Lion has versatility; i.e. he can be played machi with lots of interrupts, or he can be very aggressive. Both approaches are viable because of his speed and the fact that you'll be making lots of high (and some mid) attacks whiff.

    Lion's major drawbacks, IMO, are that (1) he doesn't do lots of damage easily; you have to work for the damage you do; and (2) he has to rely largely on traditional defense, which takes away somewhat from his role as aggressor.

    However, he's got a great midrange low attack/mid attack guessing game... a great sidekick... and that sabaki...

    With respect to whether he's the best, i would have to say that he's probably not, although i would be hard presed to point out who is. VF4's characters are much more balanced than characters in other fighting games (no need to mention names). But i don't think he's on par with, say, Akira (Lion eats elbows with all his crouching) or a good Lau (Lion floats very nicely) at the same player-level. At the higher levels of play, of course, all this goes out the window.
  14. cooks94

    cooks94 Well-Known Member

    Lions /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif move goes low enough to dodge elbows and on a counter it floats so Lion doesnt have a problem with elbows. As for floating hes not the worst character to float, Aoi is. If hes the best or not it is obviosly depatable, many people will point out Chibata who plays Lion is is one of the best, if not THE best VF player. But thats a super competitive levels....
  15. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    <font color="fffcc"> Maybe you meant to refer to Lion's lunging poke? Lunging Poke /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif(b,d/f+P){43P} ducks under elbows - Aside from it being able to go under elbows, it also covers a lot of ground. The lunging poke is also a flowchart starter. If it is blocked: d,db,b+P /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif{214P} Sabaki may be advised as it has a -15 frame recovery problem. /versus/images/icons/confused.gif . /versus/images/icons/frown.gif After it hits a f,f+K,K /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/k.gifworks too. Take note that you will recover low from this lunging attack. If it hits, you open a guessing game with your opponent as they are first faced with an annoying foot crumble. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif . You can follow it up with a dashing upper ([FC] f+P)/versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif, ([FC]f+P+G/versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif, a sweep (d+K+G)/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif or a sidekick (d/f+K)/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif. Since Lion is crouching after the lunging poke, a dashing upper can be rewarding. It can MC a lot of attacks and it will lead to combos (see below for SEARCH tips to find awesome combos for Lion). If the opponent is already anticipating the dashing upper, switch to the sweep or throw! The sweep is very dangerous since it has fairly long recovery and some will attempt to low throw you or knee you to hell or something equally painful. /versus/images/icons/frown.gif Once you have conditioned your opponent to anticipate the rising upper, go for the sidekick counter to throw or df+K /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gifto b+P+K/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> f,f+K,K/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/k.gif. This works fine on both Byants, I believe.
    d/b+K /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif- Lion's handstand kick duck many attacks and interrupt opponent's rising attack when done at the right time. You must do the handstand kick about the same time as your opponent's rising attack. Do this in Training Mode and play in slow motion to see how it ducks under high kick and counterhits for good damage and knockdown.
    Mantis Trick Step - will duck under some high and mid attacks, I think though you should avoid doing two in a row. /versus/images/icons/crazy.gif If you MC your opponent with the trick step, the [FC] f+P+G throw is a good follow-up. Note that the trick step recovers low. So after the MC, just input f+P+G or Dashing Upper. Against Jeffry in all open arenas: Dashing Upper ([FC] f+P), f+P,P, d+K, Ground Poke (d/f+P) . The down kick can hit on the bounce. I do not get it often though because I have banana fingers but, it is a nice combo to practice since it pushes them and near edge can get you a RO victory on open stages. You need to get a MC for it to work on heavies like Jeffry and Wolf.
    Do search for hiro, kbcat and BigCat for top notch Lion strats and tactics. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif
    Lion is often seemingly hugging the ground - If the opponent is tall like Jacky, then their elbows and other mid attacks will often miss a crouching Lion. This means a backward CD is very important to good Lion players. Lion switches stance in backing down after a missed or blocked df+K when executing a reverse CD. After an oppenent's elbow whiffs, you can immediately do a [FC] f+P+G. As we all know a d+K,K is guaranteed after this throw or you can go for b,f+K+G( Watermellon Stomp) /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif follow-up ( see recent Lion post by hiro). You can also hope for an mC hit attack after the whiffed elbow with a df+K or Knee to throw. </font color> /versus/images/icons/grin.gif gg
  16. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Chibita wins with a lot of other characters, not just Lion.
  17. lau_fists

    lau_fists Well-Known Member

    What other characters does Chibita play? I thought I read he had a Lau.

    I went through a stage with Lei where I thought he was just a cut above a lot of the VF characters, but then I played a better human (a Lei) and got embarrassed. Now I'm pretty sure that it is 90% the player skill that enhances the characters, not that the characters have inherent superiority over others. There's just a natural proficiency by players with a certain character, maybe by accident...I'd have liked to be an untouchable ghost with Shun, but my Shun had a Lau identity, and you can't win with a Lau'd Shun. Then Lau was easy to win with, but only up to a certain level. I didn't really "get it" until Lei Fei. The game slows down when I use Lei. I see better how to attack and defend, at least at the level I am. I wouldn't have believed I could use the monk effectively. It was just accidental.

    Lion isn't better, but I'm thinking a guy who understands everything about that character or any character, sometimes without trying, can be unstoppable. Unless they meet someone who has a better grasp on THEIR character. This doesn't have to be a Lau or Jacky, by far.
  18. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Okay, lemme throw in my two yen, and remember -- it's my two yen. Of course it's the player and not the character, but some characters require less attention (for lack of a better word) than others.

    I play against a lot of competition, and unfortunately, a lot of Lau's & Jacky's. The key for good Lion success is
    having an opponent that will techroll. If they don't, I think you'll find your game much harder.

    I USED to think (when Lion was my only character) Lau was just as hard as Jacky to beat. Namely, b/c he floats well, and when he does, he can take a *LOT* of damage, and get you back against the wall from a pretty far distance. I've gotten used to him, as they toned him down a LOT from Ver. A to C. He's still a very strong character, and I give Lau the edge against Lion, as he's got that 'continuous damage' property about him taht Lion just doesn't have.

    Lion (IMHO) requires more practice than Lau. He's not 'weak' by any stretch of the imagination, but the only thing he's got going for him is speed, unpredictability and range. His sweeps are great, but they do very little damage, and there's no follow up unless your opponent hits a wall. I think Lau is clearly a much stronger character, but he's liveable.

    What's Jacky got going for him?
    Speed (not as much as Lion, but he's no Jeffry) Power (and lots of it), floats, crumbles, auto-parry, a VICIOUS evade attack, a shit voice, unpredictability, and some of the nastiest mid-attacks in the game. To me, you can't compare Jacky & Lion... Jacky is way stronger. AM2 actually did a decent job on rating the characters levels, as Jacky is beginner (super beginner) and Lion is intermediate. There are just TOO many Jacky's out there, and one fuck up means that his /versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif is going to whack you, or of course /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif a few times, then a high-damage throw. Lion has nothing like this.

    As for the comment of Aoi being the worst floater in the game? Who cares! She's got wicked crumbles... and good floast I might ad./versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif floats on counter, and /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif is a MUCH easier follow up to a float than Lion's /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif and carries the opponent further. Better chance of ringout or wall play.

    And I put Akira a good few steps 'stronger' than Lion, as he's got a LOT of follow ups to floats, and his shoulder seems to always float. He's also got great range w/ that double-palm bullshit, and does about twice as much damage as either of Lion's sweeps -- also takes priority over damn near everything in the game.

    Wolf & Jeffry:
    While Wolf is a hard character, he's got a pretty easy float move that does a lot more damage than Lion's when followed up properly, and he's got 3 high-damage low throws. Jeffry as well has low throws, but he's got that damn elbow which seems to always connect, and he's got so much strength that you only need to get a few good combos in, and the match is practically over.

  19. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    <font color="33ffcc"> Lion depends heavily on combos and the throw opportunities
    the threat of his combos provide.
    Especially crumple combos (KD).
    What Lion must exploit are moves that cause KD.
    All his crumple combos do so on a normal hit,
    whereas other characters often require a MC to get the KD.
    This KD on normal hit alone is very special.
    When Lion executes: f,f+P/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif, b,df+P/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif, or d>b+P/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif (214P) they all crumple with impunity /versus/images/icons/wink.gif /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif .</font color>
    <font color="ffffcc"> {quote}I know that I get a "free" combo if they hit. I'm counting on it,
    and I get it because they cause KD on a normal hit.
    There are a bunch of other moves that if they hit
    (even a normal hit) I can get a "free" combo or pounce,
    such as P+K/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif and df+PP/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif.{end quote};</font color> - <font color="orange"> BigCat</font color> Tanaka-san
    <font color="ffcc99"> Among the best times to counter a blocked move with use of 214P (counter attack guide):
    3K/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif->(when your enemy successfully defends move...)->214P
    66K/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif->(when your enemy successfully defends move...)->214P
    3P/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif->(when your enemy successfully defends move...)->214P

    6PP/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif->(when your enemy successfully defends move...)->214P
    66P->(when your enemy successfully defends move...)->214P
    43P/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif->(when your enemy successfully defends move...)->214P

    6K+G/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif->(when your enemy successfully defends move...)->214P

    2+P+K+G for an instant roll into screen and 8+P+K+G -> 214P
    </font color> <font color="cc9900">-xaxak of NoMecy VF4 Club </font color>
    <font color="66ffcc"> VF4 Lion Meteor Punch strings
    d,d/b,b+P or 214P , when it connects, it crumples, this new move has a (HP/HK, elbow, sidekick) sabaki that can interrupt too. Effects animate against any and all high attacks, sidekicks or elbows. Opponents stagger and backstep.
    Strings and combos utilizing Lion VF4 Meteor Punch 214P=d,db,b+P

    Meteor->Dashing Drill->Axe Blade
    Meteor->Mountain Climbing->Axe Kick
    77 Reasons
    d,d/b,b+P->f,f+K,K and if they TR->f,f+K,K
    Meteor->Axe ->Executioners Song
    70-90 points damage (thx to:BigCat Toronto Musings @VP)
    Meteor Punch Axe Blade is Lion's Croisant with Butter /versus/images/icons/wink.gif
    d,d/b,b+P->f,f,+K,K->works like clockwork and sets up rising attack options.
    Meteor->Axe >CD or Escape->Bullet Kick->Watermellon Stomp(WS)->Finisher
    Mantis Decapitates Bloated Doorknob
    Meteor-> Board Smash-> (PP canned finish or Handstand Kick)
    d,d/b,b+P->bf+P+K-> d/b+K
    ½ six pack
    </font color>
    <font color="66ffoo"> Jacky is faster than Lion in many moves that are important for battle.
    P/versus/images/commands/p.gif= Jackys and Lions both mirror execution and recovery frame data but Lions does 2 points less damage.
    F+P/versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif= Lions does less damage and has less favorable frame stats.
    f+P/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif=Jackys elbow executes in 14 frames, same as Lions but Jackys executes in 12 frames while Lions is slower at 14 frames. Jackys also does more damage and has considerable frame advantage on counter hit: +8 frames as opposed to Lions +2;(
    Kage has same speed of execution as Jacky but has eleven moves that on counter hit give throw advantage. Sarah is faster still and has 1/2 dozen moves that give throw advantage (+8 or +9) recovery on counter hit.</font color> <font color="black">The Brotherhood of Lion </font color>
  20. TexasLion

    TexasLion Well-Known Member

    There's no doubt in my mind that there are stronger characters than Lion, but as far as having the most options in a fight, like the most high and low mind games, or having a lot of useful moves and a lot of priority, then I think that's where Lion really excels. He may not be the best, but he does have a lot of advantages over some of the other guys.

    His power is the only thing holding him back from being the Sagat of this game. If he was just a little stronger, the game would be way too unbalanced in his favor.

    Jacky and Lau are crazy with their speed and power combo, but they don't have a lot of high and lows, and that's what this game comes down to a lot of times. When someone's about to get up, Lion has a lot of options available for him to just knock you back down. Moreso than any one else, IMO. And that's a huge advantage he has. Also, his crumbles are fast and take off a fair amount of damage. It sucks that some other characters can do massive damage with small combos while Lion has to really work them, but most of the time Lion wins out with his many wake up games, pokes, and low hits and crumbles.

    Whether he's the best or not, I think him, Lau, and Jacky are still pretty close as the top characters. Akira would be up there, but to me he seems weaker in this game, and he doesn't have the priority he had in VF3.

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