israeli-lebenon. what a mess..........

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:

[ QUOTE ]
Fishie said:

Also Libanon is Hezbollah,

[/ QUOTE ]

Fishie, I understand the point you were trying to make, Hezbollah != Hamas, but I don't like seeing nor agree with the statement "Lebanon is Hezbollah".

Israel's gross overreaction, all in the name of a pre-emptive strike against terrorism, has resulted in the deaths of innocent people -- people who also want Hezbollah expelled from their country.

Hezbollah is a Shiite miltia group backed by Syria and Iran, and Syria has stuck it's nose into Lebanese affairs for far too long and continues to do so (e.g. the assassination of Rafiq Hariri last year). Lebanon has had a long troubled past and was only beginning to emerge again economically, living up to it's once lost reputation of the "Paris of the middle east." But in one fell swoop, Israel has set Lebanon back another 20 years. For every Israeli killed by random Hezbollah fire, Israeli shells, bombs and "precision" guided missles have killed 20 innocent Lebanese. The US has given Israel full support and even military backing whilst the rest of the world just sits idle. It's just fucked up.

If I sound worked up over this it's because I am. As a Lebanese Christian, this deeply troubles my soul. I have family and friends who are still stuck in Lebanon, unable to leave for various reasons, and the situation being as unstable as it is affords me no rest each night as I call around for updates.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would not be a problem if Hezbolla did not store their equipment, troops, and munitions in civilian areas such as residential zones and light commerce areas. You don't see Israel storing their planes next to schools, do you?

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

What makes a captured soldier a hostage vs a prisoner?

I know the western media sort of tells you that it's ok to think that muslims are evil, but try to hide the fact that you beleive it please.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:

[ QUOTE ]
Fishie said:

Also Libanon is Hezbollah,

[/ QUOTE ]

Fishie, I understand the point you were trying to make, Hezbollah != Hamas, but I don't like seeing nor agree with the statement "Lebanon is Hezbollah".

Israel's gross overreaction, all in the name of a pre-emptive strike against terrorism, has resulted in the deaths of innocent people -- people who also want Hezbollah expelled from their country.

Hezbollah is a Shiite miltia group backed by Syria and Iran, and Syria has stuck it's nose into Lebanese affairs for far too long and continues to do so (e.g. the assassination of Rafiq Hariri last year). Lebanon has had a long troubled past and was only beginning to emerge again economically, living up to it's once lost reputation of the "Paris of the middle east." But in one fell swoop, Israel has set Lebanon back another 20 years. For every Israeli killed by random Hezbollah fire, Israeli shells, bombs and "precision" guided missles have killed 20 innocent Lebanese. The US has given Israel full support and even military backing whilst the rest of the world just sits idle. It's just fucked up.

If I sound worked up over this it's because I am. As a Lebanese Christian, this deeply troubles my soul. I have family and friends who are still stuck in Lebanon, unable to leave for various reasons, and the situation being as unstable as it is affords me no rest each night as I call around for updates.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would not be a problem if Hezbolla did not store their equipment, troops, and munitions in civilian areas such as residential zones and light commerce areas. You don't see Israel storing their planes next to schools, do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually they sort of do. There ammo storage is not really attackable because it's too close to some Palestinian neighbourhoods.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Most of the stores are in the middle of the golan heights with a few camals being the most threatened life around.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Funny thing is, I am on the mailing lists of half a dozen Israeli and Zionist pressure organisations.

One of those organisations got my contact info at a press briefing i attended and now im on all their lists getting barraged with email after email of propaganda and disinformation.
funny how that works.

...

Not in NY? Can't Attend in Person?
The Israel Project
In Conjunction With UJA-Federation of New York,
The Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations and
The Jewish Community Relations Council of New York

invites you to attend or listen to

A Conversation with
Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations
Ambassador Dan Gillerman

Date: July 27, 2006
Time: 12:00 noon (EST)
The conference call begins at 12:30 p.m. EST
Location: 130 East 59th St, 7th Floor, New York, NY ( Between Park Ave. and Lexington Ave.)

RSVP Required:
• Click to RSVP for lunch briefing. Space is limited. Lunch will be served.
• Click to RSVP for this conference call. (Note: only those present at the briefing will be able to ask questions)
Questions? Email xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.org or call xxx-xxx-xxxx extension 483.

About Ambassador Gillerman:
Ambassador Dan Gillerman has served as Israel's ambassador to the United Nations since January 1, 2003.
The Israeli Mission has, on Ambassador's Gillerman's watch, had very impressive achievements, culminating in November 2005 when Ambassador Gillerman became the first Israeli representative to successfully introduce a resolution to the United Nations General Assembly. In a unanimous decision, the General Assembly designated January 27 as an annual international Holocaust Remembrance day.
In June 2005, Ambassador Gillerman was elected to serve as the Vice-President of the General Assembly of the United Nations. He is the first Israeli representative to serve as Vice-President of the General Assembly in the past 53 years, since Abba Eban served in this position in 1952.
During his tenure, Ambassador Gillerman has worked closely with members of the European Union and is in constant negotiation with the Secretary General and other delegations in order to help improve Israel's standing in the international community and acceptance as a full member of the U.N.
Ambassador Gillerman has also served on the Prime Minister's National Economic and Social Council, the President's Committee of the Coordinating Council of Israel's Economic Organizations, and as Chairman of the Israel-British Business Council, as well as being a member of the executive board of the ICC (The International Chamber of Commerce - the World Business Organization).

________________________________________

The Israel Project is an international non-profit organization devoted to educating the press and the public about Israel while promoting security, freedom and peace. The Israel Project provides journalists, leaders and opinion-makers accurate information about Israel. The Israel Project is not related to any government or government agency.
Board of Advisors: Senator Evan Bayh (IN), Senator Saxby Chambliss (GA), Senator Norm Coleman (MN), Senator Ben Nelson (NE), Senator Rick Santorum (PA), Senator Arlen Specter (PA), Senator Ron Wyden (OR), Congressman Rob Andrews (NJ), Congresswoman Shelley Berkley (NV), Congressman Tom Davis (VA), Congressman Eliot Engel (NY), Congressman Frank Pallone (NJ), Congressman Jon Porter (NV), Congressman Jim Saxton (NJ), Congressman Brad Sherman (CA), Congressman Joe Wilson (SC), Actor and Director Ron Silver

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

Most of the stores are in the middle of the golan heights with a few camals being the most threatened life around.

[/ QUOTE ]

you watch too much fox news

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

Fishie: Fuck off and grow up. Come back if you have something to actually contribute besides ultra left wing garbage.
Hezbolla has a long history of pulling this crap and before Israel traded prisoners for hostages. They simply are not going to do that anymore. Tough shit for hezbolla. Its their fault. If they left Israel alone Israel would not of engaged them. I punch you in the face then complain when you beat me up...who ise the douche bag?
In 30 years, the entire arsenal of the arab nations has barely advanced, relying on buying outdated equipment from Russia and france, whereas Israel's technological prowess has grown signicantly...since your using a might makes right eventually argument, I'll say that they have earned their right.
And lets get this straight, Jews were there first before there was any such thing as a Musliem. The creation of Israel was a mess, but then again was the creation of every other state in the world.


And please, this argument that Israel needs this war? They need this war like a luchencup (hole in the head). ALL the countries there would benefit if they could get along and have normal relations. Extended war and hostilities has NEVER benefited any nation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jews have been there since before there was a such thing as a Muslim???? When did they get there? Or are you talking about Bible days?

Before WWII there hadn't been any Jews in Palestine since the Roman Empire. This generation of Jews are not even from the same gene pool as the Jews of Bible-days.

If you had to fight five 13-year old boys, would you have a better chance of beating them now, while you are grown and they are all 10 years old, or would wait 17 years until they all get to be 30 years old?

If Israel doesn't need this war then why did they start it over nothing.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

In 30 years, the entire arsenal of the arab nations has barely advanced, relying on buying outdated equipment from Russia and france, whereas Israel's technological prowess has grown signicantly...

[/ QUOTE ]

(to finish your sentence) because of money and protection given by the United States.

Ban lobbyists. All of them.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Damn >_<, didn’t want to start a post like this. But I just couldn’t help it.

Let me start by saying few things about Hezbollah:

1. Hezbollah is an independent militia force. No body is supporting it, wither it's from Syria or Iran. And most of all there is no solid evidence from U.S. or other countries that said so. And if you believe what the U.S. is saying then you still believe that Iraq has nuclear weapons. If they were really backed up by Syria and Iran as some of the countries and U.S. claims, then why Hezbollah don’t have tanks and some air force.
2. The leadership of Hezbollah is certainly of a Shiite. But that due to the fact that more than 64% of the Lebanese are Shiite and the rest of Christians and Sonnies. And yet there are Christians and Sonnies in Hezbollah fighting along each other.
3. Hezbollah don’t have real fully fledged soldiers. Coz most of the soldiers are your ordinary collage students or hard laborers or even the backer next to your door. And that's what makes them pretty tough. They fight fully heartedly to defend there land.

And secondly Hamas got nothing to do with Hezbollah. Hamas is a Palestinian militia and they have there own why of thinking.

I want to know why people here hate Hezbollah. I mean, if somebody invaded your own home and your father has no power to defend the house would you just stay still and do nothing while your mother your sisters and your little brother get killed by the invaders. If so, than you are but a peace of a pig crap that doesn’t deserve to live. /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

And seriously, what kind of crap people eat from the American media and not just that, that goes for the Arabian media too? /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif

I mean how can the Americans believe there government and there media after what happened in Vietnam and Iraq. Are they really that dump. /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Btw, Israel is the one who started this late war by throwing "split" bombs "which are forbidden by the international laws" on Beirut and its international airport so no body can leave the country from there. Every day they kill a lot of innocent people "old folks, women and children" and by far they killed les than 10 soldiers from Hezbollah. And one of the latest news, they blew a UN building killing 4 UN soldiers. One of the soldiers is Chinese and Chinese government demanded Israel to officially apologies on the killing. Now tell me that Israel is just a country with military powers and they are not a terrorist country built on killing innocent people and taking there lands from them. /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

There is a lot of protest going on threw out the world against Israel and there non human acts "Germany, France, Belgium, UK, Australia, Denmark, Australia, etc…." and yet still there is a lot of non educated idiots who only believe what there own beloved media is pouring on them without going out and try to search for the truth. It is no excuse to nobody coz now every one have the internet to search and investigate what's true and what's not.

Finally, please don’t bring this kind of issue here. This is a game forum. I mean every body here loves VF that’s why we are here not because we have deferent religion or we are from a deferent race. And most of all games never mix with politics. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Plague said:

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

In 30 years, the entire arsenal of the arab nations has barely advanced, relying on buying outdated equipment from Russia and france, whereas Israel's technological prowess has grown signicantly...

[/ QUOTE ]

(to finish your sentence) because of money and protection given by the United States.

Ban lobbyists. All of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that Egypt recieves more aid (in terms of dollars) than Israel? And who is to say that supporting Israel is wrong? Everybody else of all cultures has a place where they can go to be readily accepted except the Jews. The Egyptians, the Spanish, WWII...all those have proven that the Jewish people need a place to call home.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
zakira said:
If so, than you are but a peace of a pig crap that doesn’t deserve to live. /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

And seriously, what kind of crap people eat from the American media and not just that, that goes for the Arabian media too? /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif

I mean how can the Americans believe there government and there media after what happened in Vietnam and Iraq. Are they really that dump. /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they really are that dump.

Anyways, this trivial conflict in the middle east is so blown out of proportion. The only reason its getting play in the US is because of our ongoing lust for more and better military bases in that region. What a pathetic squabble these children continue to have and you all continue it here like there is any real good solution to this problem that anyone in our government or their goverment is going to approve. These two people will continue to wipe one another off the face of the planet till one of the factions wins. the end. No magical force is going to overcome them and everyone drops their weapons and goes home. nope. Just carnage and death, just like god intended.

Anyways anyone take a look at africa lately. Those black people just can't stop killing themselves can they? How dump is that?

ps: *leaves the room* ... ... ... ... ... *sticks head back in* dump *leaves again* lol, I amuse myself so good.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
zakira said:
Finally, please don’t bring this kind of issue here. This is a game forum. I mean every body here loves VF that’s why we are here not because we have deferent religion or we are from a deferent race. And most of all games never mix with politics. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the general forum. anything and everything can be 'discussed' ( HAHA) here. you want vf, go to junkys jungle and other threads etc.
politics and other non game stuff belong here

'and most of all games never mix with politics'

i know this is unrelated but what about that gamespot article where a phd student was researching rascism in games? smells like politics to me

back to israel. man i cannot believe the attack o the four un peacekeepers. They were victims of a accicdental PRECISION attack. my my my, they must have some truly blind or truly mad people in the IDF.

and whats more funny is how fox news ( i watch it cuz its trash) tried to say that some of the peacekeepers where having high tea with hizbollah ppl.

amazing

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Jesus, you do know that U.N area was smack dab in the middle of a fire fight...and never mind that the western news NEVER reports on all the attacks that Hezbolla has on civilian and neutral party sites.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

[ QUOTE ]
Plague said:

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

In 30 years, the entire arsenal of the arab nations has barely advanced, relying on buying outdated equipment from Russia and france, whereas Israel's technological prowess has grown signicantly...

[/ QUOTE ]

(to finish your sentence) because of money and protection given by the United States.

Ban lobbyists. All of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that Egypt recieves more aid (in terms of dollars) than Israel? And who is to say that supporting Israel is wrong? Everybody else of all cultures has a place where they can go to be readily accepted except the Jews. The Egyptians, the Spanish, WWII...all those have proven that the Jewish people need a place to call home.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2867619.stm

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/trade/files/98-916.pdf

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_17.shtml

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Myke, I never expected you to be Lebanese...
I hope your family and friends there are all right...

I am half lebanese also (my father is) and have grown up there. My family and friends are still safe and I hope it'll continue like that for both our family and friends.

To come back to the debate, I am happy to see that the Israeli propaganda is not as strong as it used to be in the 80's...
The cover I posted earlier shows it very clearly: The only countries that don't want a cease fire are the US, UK and Israel...
That alone is worth more than pages of arguments...

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Hrmf, this does look rather deliberate: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

Israel troops 'ignored' UN plea

The UN deaths have provoked an international outcry


The UN post
UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

Jesus, you do know that U.N area was smack dab in the middle of a fire fight...and never mind that the western news NEVER reports on all the attacks that Hezbolla has on civilian and neutral party sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know you're wrong when you post a comment to defend Israel's actions and start off with "Jesus"...

/versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

...and never mind that the western news NEVER reports on all the attacks that Hezbolla has on civilian and neutral party sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm sorry Shadowdean but thats absolute bollocks. I appreciate the fact that being Jewish means you can't remain impartial but statements like these really do piss me off.

I can't speak for the whole of the western world but here in the UK at least you see the fight on both fronts, and you hear opinions from both Isreali's and lebonese. The fact of the matter is I see the minimal damage caused to Isreal from outdated Hezbollah rockets, and then I see the absolute destruction caused to Lebanon from state of the art weaponry Isreal has (was given). Thats why most people believe Isreal has been too heavy-handed - you can't come to that conclusion without seeing whats happening on both sides.

Just accept the fact that what Isreal's govt is doing is indefensible, thus they've lost the moral high-ground, and now you're resorting to racism to justify their actions.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

What a disgusting stupid conflict this turns out to be.

I used to marginally support Israel but since the debacle it is hard for me to think better of them than the "terrorists" they are after ... when they are effectively terrorising all those caught in the middle. If Israel had shown effort into keep the conflict "clean", I would have said nothing.

I wish God will teleport all the civilians outta there to somewhere safe and let the "terrorists" on both sides kill each other off. The less number of violent people in the world, the better the world will be for it.

Sorry to hear about those whose folks are caught in this; I don't know how it feels like but it must be terrible wandering about them ...

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
KS_Vanessa said:

[ QUOTE ]
zakira said:
Finally, please don’t bring this kind of issue here. This is a game forum. I mean every body here loves VF that’s why we are here not because we have deferent religion or we are from a deferent race. And most of all games never mix with politics. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the general forum. anything and everything can be 'discussed' ( HAHA) here. you want vf, go to junkys jungle and other threads etc.
politics and other non game stuff belong here

'and most of all games never mix with politics'

i know this is unrelated but what about that gamespot article where a phd student was researching rascism in games? smells like politics to me

back to israel. man i cannot believe the attack o the four un peacekeepers. They were victims of a accicdental PRECISION attack. my my my, they must have some truly blind or truly mad people in the IDF.

and whats more funny is how fox news ( i watch it cuz its trash) tried to say that some of the peacekeepers where having high tea with hizbollah ppl.

amazing

[/ QUOTE ]

Look, I'm not biased on this topic at all, I think both parties are wrong for different reasons (not the innocent, of course). I wont choose a side because I dont know all the facts. If you believe everything you read or hear then you believe that news sources such as Fox news, BBC and even CNN (The most trusted name in news) are not biased and report all the details without holding back information, this is simply not true. They're all biased, that's why I get my news from all of them and then compare so I can separate truth from propaganda on my own. Here you can read Israel's side for yourself and actually get a different perspective instead of a one-sided argument: www.arutzsheva.com

I feel awful for the innocent people being killed in Lebanon and for that I could never fully approve of Israel's actions. But in regards to the UN peacekeeper's they've been there since the 70's and haven't done their job. According to an email sent out by one of the deceased UN peacekeepers, Hezbollah was firing rockets within 10 meters from their facility, why?, so that when Israel counter-fired they would have to say "Oh, wait, we cant fire there. Those are the coordinates for the UN peacekeepers base". But here's the peacekeeper's ALLOWING this to happen... something's going on.
I dont know if they're getting paid off, or what... but something's going on. There's more than one side to every story and I'm not going to jump on any bandwagon without knowing all the facts.