israeli-lebenon. what a mess..........

Re: Neocons

[ QUOTE ]
Fishie said:

I am sure that your sarcasm is lost on most here

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably so, especially since everything I stated is the way the these people actually see it. They just don't know that's the way they see it. The sarcasm really isn't mine. Its just that there is such a double standard in the way everybody acts that it (the double standard) comes out when you state what is happening and it looks like sarcasm.

Sure you have a few anectdotal cases of Arab Jews and White Muslims, and Arabs who sympathize with Israel etc., but for the most part Jews are white people and they get their help from other white people. All of these people tend to think of Arab guerilla fighters as terrorists. For the most part Hezbollah, Hamas, and other such organizations in the Mid-East are Arabs. They get their help from other Arabs and those people tend to see anyone who helps Israel as an agent of Israel, or an infidel, or an occupier.

In both cases the side who looks like you is an angel, while the the other side is the devil.

People who take the Israeli side think of Hezbollah, Hamas, and others as terrorists, as in a special sort of person. They use this label to justify any thing that they do to them. They think nothing of it when they do it, but when the other side does the same thing to them they react as though the sky is falling. Israel has thousands of Hamas and Hezbollah prisoners captive right now. Yet when Hezbollah captures 2 soldiers, they declare all out war on Lebanon with no chance or hope of negotiation. In the Israeli mind, capturing a member of Hezbollah or Hamas is not wrong because those people are Hezbollah or Hamas. Yet in the Israeli mind when Hezbollah captures an Israeli it is an act or terror because the Israeli is one of them and as such, deserves better treatment than one of Hezbollah.

They pay no attention to the fact that all of these organizations grow in number with armed conflict with Israel. Take the current conflict, Hezbollah's popularity has increased a lot since it started.

On the other side, Hamas attacks civilian Israeli targets. Israel attacks civilian Palestinian targets as well, but Hamas always cries foul when they do. Targeting civilians is wrong but why do they (Hamas) make such a big fuss when Israel uses the same tactic that they do. An innocent person is an innocent person.... unless, of course, they were not innocent in the first place. Enter the term 'infidel'. Now you can attack anyone not on your side, regardless of what they believe or have done.

So yeah my comments are sarcastic because I, we obiviously know better. But my point is that anyone who looks at the truth of what is going on as I stated it obviously knows better as well. But they are related to one side or the other and as thus they have faulty ideas based upon other faulty ideas and they use the ideas to form the opinion that they want to believe anyway.

If a person defines terrorism by the action, i.e., once a person identifies terrorism as the tactic of targeting unarmed civilians, they have to conclude that both sides are terrorists. However, defining terrorist based on the person commiting the action, i.e., viewing terrorism as the action of a terrorist, allows a person the freedom different standards. With the execption of Jews holding Arab land, everybody is doing the same thing to each other. Yet, in everybody's mind, it really is worse when the other guy does it.

 

Re: Neocons

[ QUOTE ]
Darrius_Cole said:

With the execption of Jews holding Arab land, everybody is doing the same thing to each other. Yet, in everybody's mind, it really is worse when the other guy does it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is very true .Well said.

 

Re: Neocons

[ QUOTE ]
tonyfamilia said:

So, Fishie, any ideas on how to handle the situation or is all hope lost?

BTW, Darrius, I like your replies, they are good................
for me to poop on! Just kidding, I dig sarcasm.

[/ QUOTE ]

A multinational force with a mandate to stop all abuses on both sides.

Israel refuses though and the US veto's any resolution to that effect.

 

Re: Neocons

Figures ... maybe it's time to get rid of the Veto option for the Security Council. Or make it so that there must 2 permanent SC members to get a Veto. The Veto power is getting ridiculous when it is being used to prevent what needs to be done.

 

Re: Neocons

If you only have a voting council of 5 members, the decisions should be made by a simple majority.

However, I suspect that the members, especially the more powerful countries, want the UN to somewhat impotent because a powerful UN is a threat to their sovereignty.

 

Re: Neocons

From HonestReporting:

Following an Israeli Air Force strike against a building in the village of >Qana, Israel is once again subject to some severe criticism in the >international media. TV viewers and newspaper readers have been confronted >with highly emotive and disturbing images of bodies being pulled from the >rubble.>>Undoubtedly, the loss of life is extremely tragic and the vast majority of >Israelis deeply regrets this incident. However, while some media wishes to >portray Israel as a malevolent force that deliberately murders civilians, >some wider context needs to be added to the coverage of the Qana story:>>- Some 150 rockets have been fired at Israeli cities from Qana over the >past three weeks. This IDF map (http://tinyurl.com/mq2qy) traces how these >rockets have been launched in 30 salvos at Haifa and other locations, >including Nahariya, Ma'alot and Kiryat Shmona. To date, 18 Israeli >civilians have been killed and hundreds wounded as a result of this rocket >fire.>>- Hezbollah has been deliberately hiding behind and operating from within >civilian areas in the knowledge that Israel does not deliberately target >civilians. Thus, when an incident such as Qana occurs, Hezbollah is >presented with a propaganda coup, as is currently the case. Indeed, >Australia's Herald Sun (http://tinyurl.com/otkoc) published damning photos >"showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia. The images...show >Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets >and heavy-calibre weapons. Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly >disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on >trucks mounted with cannon.">>As the Washington Times (http://tinyurl.com/ntvh9) points out:>>"One photograph depicts a fighter with an AK-47 rifle guarding "no-go" >zones after an Israeli attack, and another with a group of men and youths >preparing to fire an anti-aircraft gun in an apartment block, with sheets >hanging out to dry on a balcony. Another shows the remnants of a Hezbollah >Katyusha rocket in the middle of a residential block destroyed in an >Israeli airstrike. An Australian was standing just down the street when the >block was obliterated. "Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then >within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets," he said. "Until the >Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then, >it was totally devastated...It was carnage. Two innocent people died in >that incident, but it was so lucky it was not more."">>- While Israeli civilians in northern towns and cities have between 15 >seconds and one minute to find cover after an air raid siren is sounded, >Lebanese civilians have been forewarned of IDF operations, in some cases, >by days. The residents of Qana were warned 48 hours in advance of potential >IAF air strikes.>>DOUBLE STANDARDS>>The Qana incident is likely to be a defining incident in this current >conflict, aided by a media that lacks context and prefers to judge Israel >by different standards to other nations involved in military actions. It >is, for example, interesting to examine the record of NATO forces >(http://www.nato.int/kosovo/repo2000/conduct.htm) that bombed the Serb >military in Kosovo in the late-1990s. In the face of an estimated 500 >civilian deaths, NATO admits that: "Strikes were also complicated by the >cynical Serb use of civilian homes and buildings to hide weapons and >vehicles, the intermixing of military vehicles with civilian convoys and, >sometimes, the use of human shields. In this way, NATO's concern to avoid >civilian casualties was exploited by the Serbs.">>EMERGING DOUBTS?>>In past incidents such as the Mohammed Al-Dura affair >(http://tinyurl.com/n3vvl), the "Jenin Massacre" (http://tinyurl.com/zh5hg) >and the Gaza Beach deaths (http://tinyurl.com/ggykc), Israel has been >castigated by the international media only for new evidence to emerge that >has changed the nature of the story. While it is still too early to draw >any conclusions before the results of any official investigation are known, >there are a number of questions and inconsistencies regarding Qana:>>- The Red Cross has published >(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284627,00.html) that 28 corpses >were evacuated from Qana, 19 of which were children. These figures clash >with the Lebanese report that 57 people were killed.>>- Why is there an unexplained 7-8 hour gap >(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283816,00.html) between the >time of the air strike and the building collapse? Initially the IDF >speculated that Hezbollah explosives in the building were behind the >explosion that caused the collapse. Another possibility is that the rickety >building remained standing for a few hours, but eventually collapsed. "It >could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an >explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the >attack, and maybe remained there, IDF Brigadier General Eshel said. "I'm >saying this very carefully, because at this time I don't have a clue as to >what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.>>For more on how web blogs are re-examining the initial assumptions behind >Qana, see this YNet article >(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284546,00.html), or head to >HonestReporting's Backspin (http://backspin.typepad.com/) blog for the >latest news as more details (or questions) regarding Qana come to light.>>HonestReporting does not wish to minimize or cheapen the deaths of innocent >civilians. We do, however, call for the media and the court of >international opinion to treat Israel fairly and to view this terrible >incident within the wider context of Israel's fight to protect its own >citizens from the continuing threat of Hezbollah's rockets. Hezbollah, >which hides behind women and children as they fire these rockets, is >directly responsible for the situation now occuring within Southern >Lebanon.>>EXPERT PANEL DISCUSSES MEDIA COVERAGE>>HonestReporting's Senior Editor, Simon Plosker, discussed media coverage of >the fighting in Lebanon in a special roundtable discussion hosted by >Newsroom Confidential (http://www.newsroomconfidential.com/) on July 30. >Among the panelists were Naomi Ragen, Nonie Darwish and Lenny Ben-David. >(Click here - http://tinyurl.com/mlqnh - to listen to the show.) Newsroom >Confidential airs on the Los Angeles radio station KRLA. >(http://www.krla870.com/)>>Due to the incredible volume of coverage, not all instances of media bias >can be specifically highlighted by HonestReporting. We call on our >subscribers to go the extra mile and respond to the media where necessary. >Click here (http://www.honestreporting.com/a/mediaContact.asp) to find >contact details for major international media outlets.>>>>========== TAKE ACTION ============>>- Visit HonestReporting's Website - www.honestreporting.com>>- Submit examples of media bias - >www.honestreporting.com/a/submitArticle.asp>>- Encourage your friends to join HonestReporting by sending a friendly info >message: www.honestreporting.com/a/tellFriend.asp>>>========== ABOUT HONESTREPORTING ============>>HonestReporting has over 140,000 members worldwide. "Middle East Media >Watch" (DBA HonestReporting) is a section 501(c)(3) tax-exempt >organization, contributions to which are deductible for U.S. income tax >purposes. Your generous donations keep us going - and keep the media on its >toes!>are greatly appreciated and will help Israel win the media battle.>>Donate online with your credit card, using our secure server:>https://www.honestreporting.com/a/newsecuredonate.asp>>Or mail contributions to:>HonestReporting, 63 W. 38th St., Suite 1103, New York, NY 10018 USA>>(c) 2006 HonestReporting - Permission granted to post and redistribute.>>======================================>>To subscribe to HonestReporting, enter your email at the top of our >homepage:>http://www.honestreporting.com>>To UNsubscribe click on the link below:>http://host.netatlantic.com/cgi-bin/unsubscribe.pl?id=29649196T

 

Re: Neocons

Tonyfamilia, why do you post propaganda and as though we are all suppossed to treat it as legitimate journalism?

That website declares its mission to be fighting against anti Iarael media bias. That is absurd on its face considering how ridiculously slanted America's coverage of Israel is. The idea that there is systemic bias against Israel in the media is only true in Bizaro America.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

I still think smarmy is a funny word.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Same sorta shit I get bombarded with from The Iran Democracy monitor, The Israel project, American foreign policy counsil etcetera.

They do a pretty good job twisting the facts making Israel look like totally innocent victims.

Still wonder how I got on their mailing lists, I mean I dont even write about real news, I report about videogames for crying out loud.

 

Re: Neocons

found these vids.

quite interesting.

it seems tho i was wrong bout jewish people.
theyre alrite.

its the fucking zionists i still have a problem with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dSHl3C9kgY&mode=related&search=

heres another vid where zionists are beating up an orthodox jew. he's not even resisting and ppl are having a go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5qZu4yhOvE&mode=related&search=


how extremely sad

 

Re: Neocons

I understand that there are peaceful Muslims and I understand that condenming a whole entire religion/ethnicity/way of life/etc. is wrong. The problem that most of the world has with Muslims is that even though not all Muslims are terrorists, most terrorists are Muslim. There are very few terrorists who are not Muslim. What do we do about these people who have interpreted their teachings as "killing the infidel is acceptable/encouraged by Ala"?
It would be great if we could co-exist with each other and each of us have our own beliefs (kinda like in the US, I know it's not perfect here but at least Christians/Jews/ Catholics/Muslims/Buddhists/etc. are not declaring Jihad on each other) but there is no negotiating with these extremists, there is no kind of diplomatic way to handle people who live by the sword. Do you guys really think that anybody can get through to a person like Bin Laden, Saddam?

War is a necessary evil, without it people such as Hitler would not have fallen, can you imagine a world where Hitler was still alive? Certain leaderships, and ways of thinking which threaten peace on Earth have got to go.
I dont care if it's my brother or my sister that had the idea that all who disagree with their religion must die, guess what? That's right, they have got to go.
Basically, it IS us versus them (the violent, Muslim extremists). It's kill or wait to be killed, this is not my training talking, this is life.

 

Re: Neocons

[ QUOTE ]
tonyfamilia said:

I understand that there are peaceful Muslims and I understand that condenming a whole entire religion/ethnicity/way of life/etc. is wrong. The problem that most of the world has with Muslims is that even though not all Muslims are terrorists, most terrorists are Muslim. There are very few terrorists who are not Muslim. What do we do about these people who have interpreted their teachings as "killing the infidel is acceptable/encouraged by Ala"?
It would be great if we could co-exist with each other and each of us have our own beliefs (kinda like in the US, I know it's not perfect here but at least Christians/Jews/ Catholics/Muslims/Buddhists/etc. are not declaring Jihad on each other) but there is no negotiating with these extremists, there is no kind of diplomatic way to handle people who live by the sword. Do you guys really think that anybody can get through to a person like Bin Laden, Saddam?

War is a necessary evil, without it people such as Hitler would not have fallen, can you imagine a world where Hitler was still alive? Certain leaderships, and ways of thinking which threaten peace on Earth have got to go.
I dont care if it's my brother or my sister that had the idea that all who disagree with their religion must die, guess what? That's right, they have got to go.
Basically, it IS us versus them (the violent, Muslim extremists). It's kill or wait to be killed, this is not my training talking, this is life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you continue to think in extremes...

 

Re: Neocons

Saddam was not terrorist. He was a traditional evil despot. Most of the worst crimes he committed were done with the knowledge, even the assisstance of the United States.

The US gov't gave him the green light to attack Iran, starting a war that killed 1,000,000 people. We sold him precursors to chemical weapons that he used to gas his own people while we turned a blind eye.

Yes, it is terrible when Hezbollah or Hamas kill innocent Israelis. But it is also bad when Israel kills innocent civilians, and if you look at the numbers, Israel is way more effective at killing innocents than amateurish Hezbollah or Hamas.

 

Re: Neocons

So how do you deal with this scenario??? Please, I implore you to put up an achiavable method to reach these people when all they know is violence. If a child is caught stealing, his arm will be severed, this is not hear say, I was there, I have pictures to prove it. You've seen the decapatation videos, how do you deal with these individuals??? Please, tell me, I have more of an open mind than you may think. Ideas?

 

Re: Neocons

[ QUOTE ]
tonyfamilia said:

If a child is caught stealing, his arm will be severed, this is not hear say, I was there, I have pictures to prove it.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaa . you actually took pictures while they were doing it? i find this extremely funny.

did you know i got the signature of the man who burnt down my house and killed 2 of my family? ive got the pictures to prove it

............................

 

Re: Neocons

[ QUOTE ]
tonyfamilia said:

Please, tell me, I have more of an open mind than you may think. Ideas?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have an open mind yet you say that 'these people only know of violence'?

pahlease...

do you have an 'open' enough mind to even consider that most people living in 'these' sort of places are just people like me or you? or are they all violent muddafuckas in your 'open mind'?

 

Re: Neocons

What are you talking about??? Burnt down your house and killed your family? Dude, they were punishing a child-thief, I had no business getting involved in that, yes I took pictures, it's not the kind of stuff you see everyday but if I was to post them it would just be more anti-Muslim propaganda.

Umm, no they're not ALL violent 'muddahfuckas' in my mind. In case you havent noticed, there is a major difference saying ALL of the people living in 'these' (as you put it) places and saying (I'll quote myself) "Basically, it IS us versus them (the violent, Muslim extremists). "
If you read it correctly, you will see that I dont have a problem with ALL of 'these' people, I am talking about VIOLENT MUSLIM EXTREMISTS, you know, the kind that decapitate 'infidels' while they're still alive and then record this and post it on the internet. Can you, or anybody you know, see yourself doing this kind of vile act? If your answer is yes then I know more of who I am talking to.

 

Re: Neocons

What about the Israeli extremists?

 

Re: Neocons

I forgot or i never knew but what are they actually fighting over?