Jacky Bryant: General Discussion and Q & A

Discussion in 'Jacky' started by Chibiaya, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Bus Orez
    Post any and all Jacky related questions here. Leave it to gameplay only please. I will do my best to answer any and all questions related to Jacky in VF5FS.
     
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  2. Hajin

    Hajin Member

    Do you got a good oki after 46P+G if they techroll?
    So far I'm stuck with 44K.
    And speaking of that throw, against a wall I do 7K for 95 damage, is there a better follow up?

    Good topic idea btw, I might come here often. Jean is still my main, so I'll need all the knowledge I can get to power up Jacky fast.
     
  3. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

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    7k against light characters can lead to over 100+ damage. Generally, I dont use it because it is far too risky.

    44k isnt exactly good oki in general. That move is best used as a way to use backturned mixups during wall games to prevent people from stepping out of it.

    46p+g gets great oki, You have enough time to see what they will tech with. Watch to see how the opponent techs after that move. If they do not tech, Then you get a free down attack. If they tech to the side, you get meaty 4K+g. If they get straight up, you can go again for the throw mixup. You can even do 44p to backturned after the throw so that you can apply backturned mixup. Jacky is very strong on oki.
     
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  4. Hajin

    Hajin Member

    Far too risky? I was speaking about 46P+G follow up when they hit the wall after the throw ! Not a random 7K hahaha

    This throw does 60 damage if they don't tech (not talking about walls anymore), 50 if they tech. So it's only a matter of " if they tech to avoid the 10+ damage with what move can I get them on meaty ".
    4K+G seems too slow, that's why I do 44K, which get them all the time. Just wondering if there's better.
     
  5. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

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    Too slow? no, that move is actually very strong on oki. Also, I didnt understand your post apparently. No after that throw, flip kick does the most damage. I would use that as a round ender
     
  6. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Chibiaya, are you saying that, after a side-techroll from 46P+G, a 4K+G is guaranteed to land whilst they're teching? Also, for the guaranteed down attack if they don't tech - is it a heavy one or a light one? My oki game is mainly based on trying to bait rising kicks with back side slide or back dashes etc, so I need a way to apply more pressure with stuff like this.
     
  7. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

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    It hits meaty so they cannot do anything other than block. If they block it you are at -5 so you can fuzzy after it in a meaty situation. And light down attack, heavy can be teced if they roll to the side and they can punish you for whiffing
     
  8. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Alright, I guess I'll have to embarrass myself and ask what 'Meaty' means. Is it something where the only option is to block or something?

    Also, 4K+G says it's -8 on guard in the command list - does this 'meaty' thing do something to the frames?
     
  9. Elite

    Elite Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Koenraku
    Meaty means hitting late into your move's hit frames with exact timing. So you would do 4K+G and it would already be in hit frames the instant the opponent becomes "active" - ie not invincible after the tech roll. It means they have no frame before your move is "on" them to do anything at all, they have to guard.

    Also, since you're hitting late into your move it shaves some time off the recovery frames due to the opponent being put into the same amount of block stun regardless of which hit frame connects. Kinda like when I use Kage's knee on you to crush rising kick, it's safer than usual even if you guard cause I hit late into the knee's hit frames.
     
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  10. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Alright, I get it now. I actually have been trying to do that, just because it felt strong, but I didn't really understand the mechanics behind it.

    So now, my question would be, what's to stop my opponent always guarding after teching? It seems like I have to be quite far away to use this 'meaty' thing, and since the heel drop is so slow, it seems like there's no real threat of me throwing to break the guard, so all I'm doing is giving my opponent a +5 advantage after teching and guarding my heel drop. Obviously I'm missing something - I just don't quite understand why this technique is strong.
     
  11. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

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    Throwing them. Or using mid low mixups. Throws for jacky are extremely effective on wake up situations because people have to respect his strong mid options and extremely safe launchers.
     
  12. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Aren't I going to be too far to throw them? Am I not trying to use my 4K+G from max range, such that I connect from as far away as possible (to limit my opponent's responses)? Or do I do it from close up and ignore the range factor?
     
  13. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

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    You dash in and throw them. You dont just stand there and throw because of course, you are too far from them for the throw to land unless you are near the corner.
     
  14. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    I guess I'm missing the point here. I'm looking at it like I have two options:

    1) Stand at max range for 4K+G, and begin the attack such that it applies its later hit frames on the tech-rolling opponent as they rise, either hitting them if they crouch/attack, or giving them only ~+5 frames if they guard.

    2) Stand at max range for 4K+G to lead the opponent to believe I am going to use option 1, but then, as the opponent rises, dash-in to throw, hitting them if they standing guard.

    The problem I'm seeing is that, it seems like my opponent should be able to react to the dash and react to it. If he's watching my character, once the situation passes the point at which I'm supposed to use my 4K+G, he'll then know that I'm either not using that attack, or that I'm starting it too late, and can take different actions, effectively eliminating my forced-choice tactic.
     
  15. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

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    It is a point of mixup. of course theycan react to it. the can react to anything. The point is to mix up your options to force situations on them
     
  16. Jacky22

    Jacky22 Active Member

    How about some indepth move analysis, covering all of Jackys Moves, even the less used ones? Like:

    2[K][P] Fake Ellbow : a true ellbow, not only "just" a midpunch like 6[P], but how to use this move, you cannot fool good player with 2[K], 2[K][P] High low mixup, move is slow too

    [P]+[K]+[G] [P] seems to be slow, but strong, very safe on block, far reaching and floats on normal hit, any use for this

    [P]+[K]+[G] [K] ?

    8[K]+[G] is slow but utterly safe? Crushes low attacks?

    9[K]+[G] what I hate about this move is the lack of cancelling the 2nd Hit, just like Pai 9[K][K] , seems to be somewhat safe when done on max distance, because enemy gets pushed too far away for Throw etc.


    How do you use moves that leave you at -8 on block, like
    3[P]+[K],[P]+[G] or 6[K]+[G] or 4[K]+[G] if those moves are blocked, the only way to avoid a throw is either abare or Throw Escape with 1/3 chance of breaking, worth the trouble?

    6[P]+[K], 4[P]+[K], 4[P]+[K]+[G] [P] maybe its just my immagination, but opponents tend to alwasy duck those moves, IMO because Jackys Fist is so high in the air, clearly to identify as high punch, opposed to, lets say Taka, where all of his moves sorta look the same?
     
  17. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

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    Fake elbow is pretty bad tbh. Though using it sometimes doesnt hurt, It is safe on block but usually a good player will Either Block or EDC the followup so generally not worth the trouble.

    P+K+G P Is pretty good on oki and in spacing wars. it has alot of range

    P+K+G K Is good because it has frame adv on block AND it is a full circular. Good for oki and especially good vs the wall. People have to respect you when you use this move. Do not use it alot however as the move is a high and can be beaten out pretty easily with any High crush or 2p if your opponent is expecting it.

    3p+k is good vs frequent fuzzy guarders. it is also good to mix in with 1p because they both have a slow crouching animation. Granted this move does not have any crush properties. it is slow enough to catch people who are trying to evade a fast move and you can catch their failed evade with this move.

    6k+g is good in spacing wars. Good to use on sideturned vs opponents because it is +4 on normal hit. Which sets up most of jacky's sideturned shenanigans. Best use for spacing however and to prevent the opponent from running in against you.

    4k+g: Probably my favorite launcher for jacky because it is an amazing spacing tool. It is also amazing during Oki. Your opponent must fear this move.

    6p+k: Jackys best move period. This move is 14 frames, Has tons of range and also eats alot of attacks because of its range. This move should be used ALOT. On sideturned, it is +1 so you can keep your sideturned game going with this move.

    4 p+k: Strong but slow anti step move. This shouldnt be used often but it is good for stopping advancing opponents who move just a little too much. great move to catch people by surprise considering it leads to a 90 point combo.

    Slide Shuffle P: This actually is not a very good move. People think that it is because of how fast it is, But that is deception. this move isnt very good compared to Slide shuffle P+K P. It is much easier to confirmed into combo and it is a safe mid that people have to respect due to the second hit being so long to delay.

    8k+g: Eh...this move just flat out sucks imo lol. not really worth the trouble using this move. it doesnt crush on the first frame so it isnt a good low crush move. Can be used on oki though....

    9K: This move is a good "get off me move" but other than that, even with proper spacing, this move generally shouldnt be used unless you want to rattle your opponent with "hey idiot, you should block this" lol
     
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  18. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I've found 8K+G to be mostly worthless, though I do sometimes use it in Oki situations when I'm at the point that I can't backdash to avoid a rising kick, and I anticipate the low-sweep. The problem with it is that it sometimes will whiff when it jumps over a low sweep. Strange, because the range is there, but for some reason, the opponent is 'too low' and the attack will go over the opponent's head. The good thing is that it's neutral on block, so if they rising guard-throw-escape, you won't be at the same disadvantage as a regular jumping attack. It also has 4 hit-frames, so it can crush rising sweeps too, though it's slow and hard to time. All in all, it's not really worth bothering with, but those are my experiences with it.
     
  19. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    [8][K]+[G] produces a wall splat. When Jacky is parallel with the wall it's not a bad idea to try this from time to time.
     
    PurpGuy likes this.
  20. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Okay, so my brother keeps chastising me for not know any wall combos (at the moment I just spam 66K over and over 'till they hit the ground), and everything I've seen posted here requires the use of Iaigeri, which I just can't do consistently, so I'm looking for a generic wall combo that will work on most wall splats and that doesn't use the Iaigeri.

    If I remember correctly, my brother said it's supposed to go where you splat them into a wall, then use an attack to hit them in such a way that you can then splat them against the wall again, and just kinda repeat that process (which does get me wondering, which I can't just use wall splat move A > some high-powered attack > wall splat move A etc and just repeat that?).

    Is there a way to tell what moves cause splats or anything? I don't mind going into training mode and testing stuff out, it'd just be helpful to know how the principles work (or if someone has already figured out a good/the best non-Iaigeri combo, I can just use that).
     
    PurpGuy likes this.

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