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Jacky Questions

Discussion in 'Jacky' started by Genzen, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Hello people,
    I have a question about Jacky's elbow. From the command list on this site, it looks like elbow-backfist is no longer special high, and on normal hit, the elbow is -3. This means that the opponent can just crouching punch every time the elbow is guarded or normal hits, making it much less effective as an offensive move than before.
    Any suggestions on how to deal with this?
  2. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    Well, they'll only be able to lp if they defend elbow. Being hit will guarantee the follow up back knuckle. The only reason I suspect they removed the special high property of this move was because of the addition of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif follow up that hits mid.
  3. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    That or they realized that Jacky players were whoring it like no tomorrow against people with fuzzyguard problems.
  4. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    Actually Kiwe, it's not an unstoppable tactic. Just stop trying to low punch. You're supposed to guard elbow and fuzzy the backfist - not try to interrupt. After the backfist whiffs then Jacky can be interrupted out of either /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif follow ups for big damage.
  5. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    I guess you missed the part about fuzzyguard in my post when telling me to stop trying to 2p and that it's not unstoppable Jerky lol. Who on earth ever did 6ppk? But don't tell me it wasn't powerful - it was a huge part of why Jacky's elbow was considered the best by many in VF4. 6p>6p, 6p>backdash>6p, 6pp MC, 6p stancespec avoid 2p > 6p, 6p>2p, it's more like jacky was on advantage if his elbow was blocked in Evo then diss almost due to risk/payoff for getting random staggers and MC's. Now consider if it was kept the way it was for VF5 and add in tools like backdash 1pk mC etc, 0-framethrows, a stronger backdash function etc for VF5 and new options from it and it's quite easy to understand why it 6pp's specialhigh property was gotten rid of.
  6. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I did miss that, but you still seem to not fully understand the game revolving Jacky's elbow.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who on earth ever did 6ppk? </div></div>

    On MC backfist the k is guaranteed. Plenty of people did it against people waiting for a throw opportunity - it's there for a reason. Also elbow was -6. That means Jacky simply couldn't just elbow a attentive player repeatedly. By that logic you could say that about any character's "x" move being useful. That's not reason enough to remove the special high property as all you're doing is simply stating the weaknesses in inexperienced players... and sorry to say many eastern players didn't have that issue with Jacky as they knew to stay away from low punch in that situation.

    Once the guessing game behind elbow is understood you'll see how ungodly it really is against someone who knows how to deal with it. All efforts at that level are made to divert attention from this core move such as using 4k or attacking low with 1p or using _6k against the fuzzy guarder.
  7. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    That is definitely true. After 10000 matches with my brother, he could pretty much get out of every follow up, and I was left having to use stupidly delayed throws, or stupidly delays elbows to beat his fuzzy.

    As for VF5, is seems like you pretty much want to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif every time you decide to do an elbow, ad it then leaves you in the mid/low/SS guessing game.

    With the removal of the special high properly, it makes it much harder to hit check the elbow, because if you wait to see what hit you get (so as to follow up with sword on MC or stagger) then you will be delaying the back knuckle, and as it is no longer special high, it won't beat the opponent's low punch.

    Does this sound right, or am I talking out of my rear end?
  8. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    First I say that I never considered repeated elbowing particularly unbeatable, it was just annoying. Now with the new /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif the backfist still interrupts high and mid moves that opponent tries to interrupt the repeated elbowing with, but the problem is what can Jacky do to punish the automatic low punch he knows is coming from opponent after the elbow is blocked? Unfortunately Jacky is not blessed with a low throw..

    (disclaimer: you know its not been a 'proper' elbow for a long time, its a gut punch hehe)
  9. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    I think that you have to defend against the LP if the elbow is blocked, which is easy enough because you can standing guard and get a frame adv for guarding the lp, then you can offense again.

    It's just not as good as being able to tack the special high on the end of the elbow if you get it blocked, so it makes it more difficult to stay on the offense.
  10. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Against /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is blocked: crouch back dash or just back dash /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

    Jacky is not as easy to play as before but he is still strong.
  11. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Ah, thanks Ice. I needed a way to deal with lp, at the moment I am just evading and that doesn't really help much.

    I agree with your statement, he is definitely more difficult to play (though I think all the characters are) but I think he is probably just as strong.

    His elbow isn't as whoreable, but his side slide and added options from back slide seem to make up for it.

    I don't like the reduced damage from his heel drop, and his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif needs the guaranteed heavy pounce again.

    Oh, I'm just wondering if offensive move from a blocked elbow would work AGAINST LP or would I get hit, or would they recover or what?

    Just wondering, because there doesn't seem to be much use to OM with Jacky, as he is nearly always on some type of disadvantage (yes I know that he usually has a canned follow up, but this doesn't help for OM).

    Anyone have any advice on where to use OM with Jacky?

    Also, would OM work after you punish something with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif?
  12. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I'm not a Jacky player, so I don't know specifics, but generally OM after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif does work.

    Use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif if you want to knock down and pressure. If you just want to maximize damage go instead for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.
  13. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    OM with Jacky can be useful after iai, or after a stagger situation with elbow Ev2. Just watch if your opponent likes to attack in disadvantage. Also learning what the next sequence is in a character's series can help you go around the opponent with a well timed OM.

    After /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif you can pressure with a well placed /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (side kick) or if you're attentive enough to land a soccer ball kick if they stay down.
  14. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Ah ok.

    So if I can correctly anticipate the second strike after blocking the first part of a two string combo, can I OM if the first hit is disadvantage on guard (putting me on the advantage)?
  15. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    Yup, that's how it works for the most part. It can be tricky to do as timing varies according to your opponent so you need to practice it.
  16. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Might sound stupid, but does OM beat half/full circular moves?
  17. sanjuroAKIRA

    sanjuroAKIRA Well-Known Member

  18. Crazy_Galaxy

    Crazy_Galaxy Well-Known Member

    Anyone done any testing on this (I would if I own the game), it seems a timing issue like breaking rising attacks? Or is it really just inconsistent?
    Sorry for the off topic q.
  19. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    I tested to a limited degree, and I can tell you that it definitely works against Jacky's full circular high (though timing could be a factor).
  20. amany

    amany New Member

    i have a question
    are jacky , akira , pai , sarah , kage and lion real characters?

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