Jacky: Setups, Traps, Mixups

Discussion in 'Jacky' started by StreamerX, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. StreamerX

    StreamerX Member

    Hi @ all.

    I'am new on VFDC and play only Jacky in moment. I'am not a PRO, but I give my best to learn from better opponents to get better on my side. I'am looking for strategies concerning setups/midgames/mixups and so on. I think it's a good idea to collect and share this data in a thread to have a list of good practicable stuff.

    Waht do you think ... let's talk about your mechanics to get the win.

    -------
    ---


    For the beginning some stuff from my side:

    I like to play jacky fast with his pokes to annoy the opponent. I use:
    • P,G,6K:G (+3 on BLK)
      - I try P (+2 on BLK) to have advantage as basic
      - 6K:G to hold the advantage on block close to the opponent, on hit apply launch-combo of choice
      -> if opponent start to throw out 2P after a blocked P you can:
      1. block to have advantage
      2. backdash to let whiff and counter with P+K,P-Combo of coise by self
      3. P,G,6P will beat the opponetns 2P (12 F) --> +-0 Frames
    • 6P
      - my experience: after any 6P the opponents throw out their 2P, that kill all 6P variants
      - thats why SSS from 6P is not practicable IMO
      - I use this move against ducking opponents or 2P-spammer in combination with P,G,6P to force them to block high
      - for me the only option is in moment to block or step after the opponent block my 6P
    Next to P,G,6P you can use other stuff like 4K _ 3KK _ 1P+K to force them not to duck or spam 2P. Than you can apply many great stuff:
    • (P,G,)4PK (+3 on block)
      - beat opponents 2P after your blocked 4P for a combo
      - leafe you back-turned
    • 1P+K,P,P
      - I use this If I have advantage
      - insanly delayable, let's do it
      - that allow you to throw out the third unsave p for a counterhit because the before described moves are 2-strings
      - if your opponent punish you use a save alternative 1P+K,P,K or chancel the string
    There is more stuff to talk about but it's all for the moment from my side. I would be happy you can help me, give tipps for wrong information or better alternatives. To apply the 6K:G-story is hard in execution and I have big problems to do it exactly ... but I think it's one of the best move he has.

    Tx in advance
    StreamerX
     
  2. Auvii

    Auvii Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Auvii
    You may want to look here http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/vf5/jacky/strategy

    It covers the strategy in a bit more detail and may help you out quite a bit. Its mainly vanilla but still viable. The strategy you list here is not something that will work on advanced players.
     
  3. Chibiaya

    Chibiaya Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Bus Orez
    that page is pretty outdated Auvii, But i think that it covers jacky pretty good even now. I am working on a tutorial video so you can look forward to that. Also the only reason I didnt make this thread myself
     
  4. Auvii

    Auvii Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Auvii
    Its out dated I agree but a lot of it is still viable. The information on [6][P] for example.
     
  5. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    What makes you say that Auvii? From my reading, I don't see anything wrong with what StreamerX has offered?
     
  6. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    The wiki page gives some good basic Jacky pressure, even though it is technically outdated.

    Couple most important pressurestrings imo:
    [P] -> [6][P]
    [6_][K] : [G] (iaigeri) -> [6][P]
    Both of these are true block strings against lot of the cast, meaning for the most part the second hit cannot be interrupted if they block the first.

    Backdash into launcher setups can offer huge payoff. Not just against low punch but also against other fast but shortrange moves. For example
    [6][P] (blocked) -> [4][4] -> [6][K] can do as much as 100+ damage up to midweights after the high angle kick.
    However, you need to take into account opponents character, some characters (for example Akira and Lau) have further-reaching fast mids than rest of the cast meaning they can hit you out of the backdash more easily.

    Then we have the delayable strings that are in my opinion stronger than before because of how tracking failed evades has been improved. They dont generally offer much payoff, and can be risky if blocked, but are useful tools against people trying to evade-dashcancel guard you at will.

    [1][P]+[K](delay)[P](delay)[P] is mid-mid-mid string, mad delayable, and the third hit will cause crumple on counter. However, the third hits also very punishable on block (-16). You can also go to side shuffle after the second hit however I can't say its a very good option.

    [6][P][P](delay)[P] Is mid-high-mid, third hit is punishable on block (-16) and doesnt really give anything special on hit. However many people have a tendency to eat it since they are used to ducking Jackys mid-high-high strings.

    [3][K][P][K] is technically a pretty bad string, due to being mid-high-high, but the third hit actually gives guaranteed combo if it counterhits an evading opponent. The combo however requires highlevel execution (you cant waste any frames on the iaigeri)
    evade counter on third hit guarantees SS [P] -> iaigeri -> [P] -> [1][P]+[K][P][K] on most of the cast.
    I guess the only way to get this combo through is if you condition the opponent first by poking him with a single sidekick first. Many people have gotten used to ducking after blocked sidekick due to Jackys noobstring [3][K][P][2][K][K]..
     
    btrm likes this.
  7. Jacky22

    Jacky22 Active Member

    anyone still remember VF3? In the Opening, Jacky does [4] [4] [P] [9] [K]+ [G] LightningKicks. It looks cool, but why is this still in the game, its not in the movelist either?

    Anyway, any moves that change priority, Hitbox etc. depending on open/closed Stance?

    Something like if [K]+ [G] is blocked, the following [K] is unblockable, however, only in closed stance
     
  8. StreamerX

    StreamerX Member

    Hello @ all.

    SRY for my late reply, but I was moving at home, there was no time for hobbys.

    At first I want to say "thank you" for the input from all of you!

    Tx Auvii for the link. Let me say it's a bit difficult for me as VF-newbie. The actual vf5-strategie is deterrent to read unactual frames especially on the mainmoves of Jacky. Exmple: 6P = +-0 on normal hit, not -2 ... this alone leads into a another situation for offering preassure and mindgame. I'am not the master of theorie, espacially not in VF, but this confusion give me more questions than answers. Sure, it's not an overall fact and many things will work ... but with this base I'am not happy to work with. I hope you understand.

    I will wait for you vid Chibiaya, tx!

    That was the reason for me to start this thread. I want to see if my mindset, I startet to write down, operates. So thank you Myke and Manjimaru for the input.

    @Manjimaru
    I'v read your very intresting post because this emphasize some of my aspects and I'am happy about. My problem to consistently preassure is to get the flow with the right timing and variation. I need to fully concentrate because my reaction needs more trainig especially the 6K:G move.

    After a blocked 6P, my experience is that the opponents 2P hit my backdash, backcrouchdash and all the options of 6P as complete stings or SSS, not? In this situations I step to the side to evade their 2P followed by whiffpunsih or try to block their 2P to have the advantage on my side. I never had succsess with the SSS in this situation, because the opponents 2P interrupts from close range.

    Some generally options like 33P _ 1K+G work after a backcrouchdash too, but it's situational. What is about the 4K+G after a backdash, backcrouchdash ... should give a stuncombo. 6PK after backcrouchdash is very fast against rushdownchars. If you are not to close it can work to backcrouchdash canceled into a backdash followed by the SS-stance ... there you go the longest way back and with good timing you can whiffpunish from the SS-stance. But it's very situational.

    Another question ... Are there some good ideas to get some stagger-situations for Jacky? I have no plan to deal with.

    I would be happy to get feedback from you experienced players. There are many questions more. Thx for your intrest!
    I'am looking for good Jacky-players I can learn from some things and to see, how does highlevelplaying feeling in my face. To win or loose is not really of intrest for me. I'am from switzerland, so If anyone is not too far away do not hestiate to ad me in frinds list (SRY for offtopic)! ... and sry for my bad english [​IMG]

    MFGreez
    StreamerX
     
  9. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    Oh I should have been more accurate. Its possible to connect the [6][P] from range, so that low punch does not interrupt the backdash, and you get [6][K] as punish. You just need to learn proper distancing, so only the tip of Jackys hand connects with opponents block. At point blank range the low punch will indeed interrupt backdash.

    The problem with evading low punch, is that low punch is actually utterly safe when evaded. There is no whiffpunish. At best you can get them to block your elbow from the sideturned.

    This is why its better to figure out ways to punish low punch from backdash.

    EDIT:
    From point blank range you can do [P](blocked) -> [4][4] -> [6][K] as feint and punish.
    or
    [4][P] (blocked) -> [4][4] -> [6][K]
    Actually works after blocked [4][P][P] as well.

    I havent used these setups much yet, as it depends on opponent whether he/she is susceptible to them. Many people online play pretty passively, or at least do after facing me xD

    Ill explore these setups more, as Ive been working mostly on Jackys combo potential lately.

    EDIT EDIT: If you make opponent block [3][K] at max distance, you can backdash 6K their low punch attempt also. I got as much as 101 pts of damage on this hypothetical opponent (Jean) trying to low punch Jacky [3][K][P][2][K][K] [​IMG]
     
  10. blackspade98

    blackspade98 Member

    Counter hit setup from neutral throw

     
  11. StreamerX

    StreamerX Member

    Hello.

    @Manjimaru
    Tx man! The tipp in regards to 6P in its distance is great. Concerning to whiffpunish the low punch ... perhaps it worked for me because my opponents followed up with another move after their 2P that I have whiffpunished. I will try to better dash out the opponents 2P with your tipps [​IMG]

    @blackspade98
    I will try this too and look what happens, when the opponent do the other option for their standing up.

    Are their some tipps for generally guaranteed followups?
     
  12. blackspade98

    blackspade98 Member

    this works on both wakeup low and mid the timing is slightly different. You can also option select step if they wakeup mid/low. ill post a video explaining. It only works if they dont roll though
     
  13. Jacky22

    Jacky22 Active Member

    Isn't 6[P]9[G] [K] the only way to counter a low punch after a blocked ellbow? Sure its risky as hell, but a low punch pretty much eliminates all options after a blocked ellbow, because the following punch is only high and not ex high, even backdashing needs proper spacing, and good players know it.

    Mixing 6[P]Throw, 6[P] [P], 6[P]6[P], 6[P]2[P],6[P]44, 6[P]8(2) with 6[P]9[G][K] adds a new powerful option
     
  14. ajs_

    ajs_ Well-Known Member

    Depending on the spacing of the elbow and how fast the opponent is with the [2][P], you can back dash beat knuckle ([P]+[K], hit check the [P] follow up for a combo) and combo the [2][P] attempt as well. Try it in training mode, set the dummy to block then [2][P] and find the right distance. Really useful in opening up the ability to abare after the elbow and part of the reason I think higher level players hate Jacky so much as it's a really strong tool in his arsenal and learning the spacing to do it doesn't take that long.
     
  15. StreamerX

    StreamerX Member

    You can also guard after your 6P and block the opponents low-punch too as an option ... then you have the advantage. Like ajs_ said ... train you in distance and 6P is magic. You need to vary with different strings and chancels to have success with 6P. For me 6P is a good interrupt-tool or set "traps" combined with backdashes and different followups.
     
  16. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    Yes, well, after your attack is blocked you're in slight disadvantage after all, so it should not come as a big surprise that you can't directly deal with low punch. And yes, the hopkick is the only Jacky move that has low crush properties. I wouldn't go around using it a lot though.

    For the most part its best that you just block/evade after your elbow is blocked. Evade works sometimes too, but doesn't offer any rewards if you evade punch or low punch.

    [6][P][K] should be hitchecked always anyway and none of the [6][P][P] shuffle options are anywhere near non-interruptable. So for the most part you should be just throwing that elbow out and checking whether it hits or not and adjust accordingly. Don't think of Jackys elbow like some invincible pressure tool.
     
    StreamerX likes this.
  17. scytherage

    scytherage Well-Known Member

    Note: all this stuff is based on online play; not sure if these tricks will work offline. But there's no scene where I live, so this is the best I can manage hehe

    I love Jacky's new string in VF5FS, 3K, P, 2K, K. For some reason many players (except really experienced ones) can't react and block the third hit. And you get the extra K at the end if you hit 2K.

    I saw another Jacky player do this other trick on me, and it seems to work in a lot of cases (again, not vs everyone). Do 4+P+K+G, then the flying kick 3,3K+G. If they block the flying kick, do 7K. The 7K will hit some guys who try to counter after blocking. It seems, if the flying kick counter-hits, 7k can hit your floating opponent for extra damage.

    Here's another one. When you knock down your opponent, stay just close enough to make them think they can hit you on wakeup with a kick. When you think they're about to wake up/hit you, hit 4+P+K+G. When their kick whiffs, hit K.

    If your opponent is far away and you aren't sure what to do, throw out that 4+K+G in case your opponent runs in. I'm never fast enough to combo that on counter hit, though (agh, old age, perhaps....). I also like 4P, K (backfist into spin kick) because it has ridiculous range, and I believe the K at the end is EX HIGH so if they do anything sitting down they'll get hit.

    So that's that, nothing fancy, just some stuff I like doing online. Maybe it's lag that makes them work, I don't know. They just work :D
     
  18. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    "I love Jacky's new string in VF5FS, 3K, P, 2K, K. For some reason many players (except really experienced ones) can't react and block the third hit. And you get the extra K at the end if you hit 2K."

    This works against people who aren't familiar with Jacky, but someone who understands the string will quickly realise that, after guarding the sidekick, they can crouch under the following P, crouching guard the low K, and crouch under the high K (or they can punish the whiffed high P). It's not a horrible mix-up, since you can stop the combo and do an elbow (or just use defensive techniques), but it's not abusable once the opponent understands how to handle it.

    "I saw another Jacky player do this other trick on me, and it seems to work in a lot of cases (again, not vs everyone). Do 4+P+K+G, then the flying kick 3,3K+G. If they block the flying kick, do 7K. The 7K will hit some guys who try to counter after blocking."

    Kinda risky - there really isn't any difference between using the flipkick here and using it in any other situation where you have frame advantage; the only real difference is that you're using it after and adv on block attack, where the opponent might not understand the frames and will assume they have the advantage. Personally, I'd prefer to use 6K+G if I were expecting abare, since it leads to a combo on counter hit, but it's still safe on guard, so I'm not going to eat punishment against an opponent who defends. If you find online lag to cause input speed reduction, you can always revert to P+K, P, which is a frame faster than 6K+G, and is still safe on guard. Failing that, there's always the good old 6P (hitcheck), K, but that's really losing a lot of damage potential.


    "Here's another one. When you knock down your opponent, stay just close enough to make them think they can hit you on wakeup with a kick. When you think they're about to wake up/hit you, hit 4+P+K+G. When their kick whiffs, hit K."

    That's always good, though I prefer to attack with 2KK, since it's low, it's less likely to be guarded, and it's another knockdown on hit, meaning you can apply the same game each time. You can also back slide after just the K, so if you feel (or can react to) your opponent blocking it as you move in, you can move back out of range (and then come back in with something else etc etc). Mix up with the mid kick, or P+KP for some mid level options, and you've got an annoying 50/50 game.


    "If your opponent is far away and you aren't sure what to do, throw out that 4+K+G in case your opponent runs in. I'm never fast enough to combo that on counter hit, though (agh, old age, perhaps....). I also like 4P, K (backfist into spin kick) because it has ridiculous range, and I believe the K at the end is EX HIGH so if they do anything sitting down they'll get hit."

    Aside from both hits being high, it's a good two-hit string. They both have good range and it's hard to evade the string since you only get chance on the first part. Beware that, if your opponent crouches the high kick, you're going to be left backturned at a large frame disadvantage - most likely going to eat a sidekick to the back followed by some free damage. You can side slide after the 4P, and then either just defend, or punish crouchers by applying the PP from side slide (which, of course, is beaten by a fast attack from your opponent, but that's where your canned K from the 4P would come back into play). Personally, I prefer either 4P+K for the big damage, or 4K+G for the massive range. Both are only -8 on guard, so you can still apply defensive techniques if they fail, instead of risking taking massive damage.


    It seems to me like you've come across a lot of the things that work well against people who don't know the 'ins and outs' of Jacky and his frames etc, and they'll get you quite far in ranked mode, but once you start coming against players who have really tight defence, or who know exactly what Jacky can do and how to deal with him, you'll find some of these tactics are limited in usefulness.
     
  19. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    I'll comment on ring position.

    When near the wall try pressuring with:

    [1][K]+[G]
    [6][6][K]
    [3][K]+[G]
    [4][6][K]+[G]

    ... You get the idea. Learning foot position will help you recognize which moves will knock into the wall for a splat. (or which moves will allow you to continue a combo)

    Jacky has great wall setups so make sure you keep an eye on ring/foot position! :)
     
  20. scytherage

    scytherage Well-Known Member

    Genzen: Thanks for the tips :)

    Jerky: Isn't 1K+G the leg sweep? It can cause a wall splat? Wow, I did not know that. I always thought it just makes the opponent fall over. Ought to try it one of these days...

    One last thing, I used to use the Beat Knuckle (P+K) a lot in VF5; for some reason I find no use for it in VF5FS, it seems slower for some reason.
     

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