Jacky's 1P+K string

I was in shotbox few minutes ago discussing this string, I'm already writing a move analysis for the Wiki but I don't think it's a bad idea to open a thread for this string and also say how I'd defend against that overstated string.

Jacky has: 1P+KP SSS (I mean, seriously?), 1P+KPP, 1P+KPK and 1P+KK.

Let's try to analyze the string.

1P+K has a mid follow-up and an high follow-up, it's -6 on block, +-0 on Hit and +8 on CH. It's confirmable in its follow-ups on CH.
1P+KP is a mid elbow that has a mid follow-up and an high half circular one, it's -5 on block, -2 on Hit and +4 on CH. 1P+KP is a natural combo on Hit. 1P+KP (CH) P or K are natural combos but you can't confirm the second P (CH) in its follow-ups. If 1P+KP hits a crouching opponent you can confirm it in P for a combo or K (which can also start a combo near walls).
1P+KPP is mid punch, -16 on block, -2 on Hit and a combo starter on CH.
1P+KPK is an high kick, half circular that covers Jacky's front and gives a knockdown on Hit, -6 on block.
1P+KK is an high kick, -8 on block, gives a knockdown on Hit.

I'm now going to say what I'd do in certain circumstances.

If I block 1P+K I'll ECD. Why?
Jacky has a mid follow-up after it so many Jacky players use 1P+K-P and 1P+K-throw.
ECD beats both, OF COURSE there are things to beat ECD but at least you'll stop Jacky from using the mid-throw "mix-up" (it's not a mix-up here).
So I've already said that I'd ECD but if you want to abare... don't use lows, abare with an high is better than abare with a low because you take less damage with it. But remember that ECD is better, especially near the wall because depending on the stance and the angulation 1P+KPK causes a Wall Slump.
ECD loses vs. 1P+K > 1P or 1K+G, 1P will NH while 1K+G will CH (knockdown). You'll block both if you ECD and keep crouch guarding.

If I block 1P+KP I'll crouch or ECD towards Jacky's back. Why?
Again, ECD beats both mid and throw and it also beats the half circular follow-up. ECD in this situation is a lot stronger than the previous one becuase Jacky hasn't got follow-ups anymore and 1P+KPP is launcer punishable if evaded.
Crouch is another nice option, it beats the throw, the high follow-up and Jacky's reward for risking a -16 move is stupid (1P+KPP leaves him at -2 on Hit and gives him 20pts of damage).

I didn't say everything of course but I think you'll come with other considerations about the string.

 

Its safe to say.......In this instance its just a guessing game.

 

I agree with whats in Pana's post, ECD after first hit seems the option that covers the most important options, although there is still more to talk about.

If Jacky does 1P+KP->throw, and you ECD after the first blocked 1P+K, succesfully evading the second hit, you cannot duck the throw without pressing 2G because the evade was a succesful one and thus cannot be canceled with CD. Other option is to attack and interrupt the throw. I guess you could also do a second crouchdash also, but I didn't test that last night. In any case, these options are vulnerable if Jacky continues with the third hit of the string. (which is normally covered by the empty evade as long as you don't press buttons after ECD)

Another thing that ECD after first hit loses to is Jacky doing 1P+K -> 6P. (Abare on paper since 1P+K is -6 on block, but good luck figuring out whether or not the second hit is coming).

There is more to discover about this string, but thanks to Pana for opening the discussion.

 

Thank you Pana for a very eloquent post. But what happened to 1P+KP SS ? It's mentioned once in the beggining but it's missing from the move analysis and the proposed solutions.

EDIT: i'm asking because i'm not familiar with the move, having never actually seen it, so i'm wondering why it's not worth considering.

 

1P+KP~ SSS technically loses to relatively fast attacks.. Its more of a shenanigan move to screw with peoples heads.. The only truly safe way to enter SSS is after 2P+K.

 

Yeah erdraug, what Manji said. I mentioned he has it but it's pretty useless.
That SSS loses vs. crouching, ECDG (you'll return in G to block SSS P) and you can react to it pretty easily since you have 18f (if 1P+KP CH) or 24f (if 1P+KP Hit) to react.

Manji,
So you're saying that if Jacky does 1P+KP > throw and I ECD the second P after blocking the first 1P+K he'll catch me unless I stay down and it's corret
but
it won't catch me if I attack after my succesful evade, in this case Jacky's throw will be CH by the attack when he's still ST.
Ok, 1P+KP has a mid follow-up that tracks and if it CH Jacky can start a combo so if you ECD > attack 1P+KP and Jacky continues with 1P+KPP you'll eat a combo
unless
you evade to the right direction, 1P+KPP tracks one side only. So, after blocking 1P+K ECD towards Jacky's stomach -or back? 1P+KP changes foot position so you'll be facing Jacky's back, don't know what's correct- and that problem is gone if you evade to the right side.

Also, about ECD vs. 1P+K > 6P. ECDG, you'll block 6P. In the first post I'm saying ECD instead of ECDG but if you ECDG and your evade is succesful the G won't be registered, so just ECDG.

 

This is where dojo comes in. set jacky to do all three options. Try all three solutions.. EDC, Stutter Fuzzy or just Guard. No matter how you cut it... Its meant to do exactly what it does... Create a situation to you have to make a guess. There is no definite answer but ring positioning might play a factor in this. But giving the games nature.. Ill try Subaki the last . Atleast you get good damage if your correct compare to eating a light but you can punish a throw if its attempted.

 

If you check the movelist, all hits in 1P+KPP series are fully linear. The only reason its tracking is because you push a button, or the attacks are delayed so long that the automatic realigning occurs.

If you do ECD->2G, Jackys third attack will track. If you don't duck, you are vulnerable to 1P+KP-throw.
Im pretty sure the undelayed third attack will hit you for a combo if you try attacking after ECD.

All in all, there is no 100% guaranteed way to defend against the string and its mixups, but ECD without pressing a button after blocking the first hit deals with the most common mixups after the first hit at least.

edit: one thing though, ECD after blocked first hit and then SS P doesn't work, Jacky will be thrown out of SS if the opponent does 1P+KP-throw.

ps. In case people forget after all this jibberjabber, 1P+KPP third hit is -16 on block. just reminding.

 

I think this string is the epitome of a string that you should use sparingly because of how potentially powerful it is. It is an amazing string because it does force people to guess between certain options due to its follow ups but becoming complacent with this string can be a serious blunder to your gameplay.

I remember GT asked me sometime ago why didn't use this string very much. The reason I didn't use this string very much is because I dont want people getting used to seeing it thus catching on to my habits that I might use if I continuously used the string over and over.

Fact is, Being able to consistently respond to this string with say ECD can be a bit tough. This string even if you do that will continue to punish impatient players. If the person is passive and waits for you to finish the string or waits until after the second hit to either abare or evade, Thats where you as a jacky player must learn to make the right read. No one said that you HAD to attack after those options either. You could simply backdash after using 1p+k or 1p+kp.

Backdashing here would cause any move that doesn't have long range to whiff vs an opponent who doesn't press you after this string. This also would open them up to the counter hit P if they try to attack you after backdashing a few times. This will also cause them to ecd less if they are using this option to defend against your string. Why would they do it less? because it isnt actually defending anything and the backdash is now giving you the option to create space against them. Now be aware that backdash EDC only works if your opponent hesitates against you, giving you enough time to cancel into evade if they attack. Not a perfect option, but one that exists.

Alternatively If you block the string and you abare the last hit with a launcher(in this case we will say Jacky 6k) You beat out the throw options and alternative attack options. attacks such as 1k+g etc. But of course you lose to the punch and kick enders. Now the jacky player knowing this can decide to evade dash cancel after you blocking the string and punish you for attempting to abare. This string is really good because its amazing at pressing offensive AND defensive options for the Jacky player. It isn't just "If i block this then i do this" If it were, It wouldnt be VF lol

 

I basically created the thread because I wanted to stop people putting themselves in the mid-throw mix-up.
ECD is actually the best thing you can after you blocked 1P+K anyway.

I didn't say that you can't stop your offense at 1P+KP (and that's what I do most of times for reasons you can read in the posts above) and ECD or CD or whatever, but let's not get too vague here.
Simply saying that your opponent can abare (as I did) covers the fact that he can do it with a launcher, we all know that if you evade a launcher you can punish it, you don't really need to say that everywhere because it's the same everytime. You can also use sabakis & Co. but I didn't mention them because they work exactly as they work everytime. ECD or CD here isn't the same as everytime, it has specific uses.

 

I think you missed the point of my last statement but im not gonna argue over it

 

He trying to send Subs Chibi... Let em be...

 

I also want to discuss why + SSS Is not as bad as it is being made out to be. Its been established that ECD vs this string is actually rather good but I do not see anywhere why this string could actually be good. This Extension to the string actually nullifies ECD and allows Jacky to continue to pressure the opponent with out losing ground. This string also causes a normal evade to fail and thus leaving you at +Frames. Your opponent cannot attack out of their ECD here because of the follow up string to SSS. Since it causes knockdown on hit you get massive oki. Of course this is just all guessing but that string is FAR from useless and bad. Against players who understand what they have to do vs jacky, this string is just another option that allows people to be mixed up in another way. Don't disregard it because people can attack out of it if they dont ECD. This is another instance of why Jacky is good. he causes people to freeze up and things like this can cause people to make very fatal errors vs him.

Every time i say something he has some smart ass thing to say lol. My post wasn't didnt even mention him or anything that he said but whatever.

 

Regarding the String... Its so good. Even Top Tier players get caught by something on the enders or Mid String trying to make a move (Get hit with That Elbow its open season). As for that dude.. He's Twisted.. I knew something was up with the bizarre questions.... this thread was shut down a long time ago with my post "ts safe to say.......In this instance its just a guessing game." .. but you know... some people want to keep hope alive. Make it out out be deeper than what it is.