Jacky's Side Turned Game

Discussion in 'Jacky' started by pana, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    Get a ST opponent:

    - Escaping a throw.
    - OffensiveMove.
    - K+G is 23f, high, full circular, +9 on CH.
    - 44K is a 16f, high, full circular, +8 on CH. This leaves you BT and your opponent ST.
    - 2P+K SSS P on StandingCH. Your opponent has to abare with a non-crouching move while Jacky is in SSS. SSS P leaves Jacky at +6 on CH.

    Things to know about Jacky's ST Game:

    - PPP is a Natural Combo on NH.

    - 6P+K is +15 on NH. Max Damage punishment if you're opponent is at -14/15 and ST. If a ST opponent blocks 6P+K you'll be at +1.

    - 3K is Jacky's Side Kick (VFDC Combo List for the combos), available from +4 (+5 against 11f jabbers).

    - If 6PPK connects on a ST opponent you will be at +7. Also, SS P+KP after 6PPK beats every attack the opponent can do, it loses vs. guard, evades (the second P tracks), sabakis/reversals though.

    - If you get a ST opponent with K+G on CH he won't be able to block/evade K+G SS P, he can crouch. If he stays crouching you have SS P+KP and SS K that are combo starters on NH. But it's possible to avoid this shaneningan by simpy doing a ST Fuzzy, he'll block the mid and make the high whiff at the same time. Here does the mind game from SS starts, you can do SS 33 if you think he'll fuzzy but that gets beated by fast abare which originally got beated by SS P+K etc. etc.

    - 6P on a crouching opponent and 6P on CH guarantees 2K+GK (2K+GKK, depends on the distance).
    Same for CH 2P.

    - PP4PK (I'd use this when I evade something P punishable for example) is just highs but if 4P gets blocked the last K can't be ducked: it leaves you BT, at +9 with a ST opponent.
    You can use P+K and 1P to put him in a guess (I think they're the best options in this situation), they cover a different evade direction so your opponent can:
    Guard, he will be at -1 after blocking P+K and still ST or he will be at -3 after eating 1P and still ST.
    Crouch Guard, he will eat P+K > Combo or guard 1P and you'll at -3 with your opponent ST.
    Evade towards Jacky's back, he will evade P+K (you're at least at -14) or he will be at -6 and still ST after eating 1P.
    Evade towards Jacky's stomach, he will eat P+K > Combo or evade 1P.
    Abare with an 11f jab, he will eat 1P OR K on CH.

    - Still something if you're BT while your opponent is ST.
    BT K is a 14f, high that covers both directions and guarantees SS P on CH (BT CH K SS P), continue with combos you'll find in VFDC's list.
    BT P is a 10f, high that covers Jacky's stomach. BT PKG on CH guarantees mids up to 19f (you can't hit-confirm, just throw PKG > Move) but I'd use:
    P+K if you want to cause a stagger,
    6PP and follow-ups if you still want to apply pressure on ST opponent,
    6P+K for a combo,
    PPP to get a KnockDown.

    - 4P2P is unblockable if the opponent is ST, it leaves you at +4. 4P covers Jacky's back so it can also catch an evader.

    - K+G (remember that this is 23f!) on CH guarantees SS P. SS P will leave you at +19 or +16, you need to hit-confirm it into 6K or 6_K:G.

    - 44K is high but it always hits (it's 16f) if the opponent evades. On CH it'll leave Jacky at +11, Jacky has guaranteed PK or PPP > 66K if 44K BT the opponent.

    - 46K+G is a 17f, mid, full circular and it's safe if a ST opponent blocks it (you're at -9 in this scenario).

    - 66K is a 15f, mid, linear. Nothing special, it's just that it's -7 if normally guarded but only -1 if guarded from ST and it seems that everyone forgets about that.

    - If P+K is guarded and K hits on CH then SS P+KP is guaranteed, continue with combos you can find in VFDC's list.

    - 1P4 SS P+KP beats 2P if 1P landed on NH.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  2. YOMI

    YOMI not a legendary game designer

    PSN:
    buttoi-man
    So what are Jacky's options against side fuzzy/ECD? Most of his circulars are around the 16f speed so wouldn't they get avoided?
     
  3. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    That's really useful information, thanks Pana!

    Looks like the best thing to do is to use the sidekick/throw mix-up, then use another mix-up between the follow-up sidekick string or throw.

    For Backturned, can it just be a pure 50/50 between P+K and 2+P? Can 2K be used at all, or is that too slow? Also, do you know the frames for when you hit a backturned 2P and go into SS against a sideturned opponent?


    For this, is the high-kick part of P+KK still crouchable after guarding the P+K, or does the sideturned thing stop that? Just wondering if I can spam it against everyone or if I'll have to test whether they crouch on reaction.
     
  4. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't do that. 3K's follow-up can still be ducked. I wrote the info because you have to know it if your opponent uses an high or mid attack after blocking 3K so that you can use the situation's potential.
    After PP4PK you're at +9 so P+K and 1P win vs. every attack (example: at +8 P+K loses vs. 11f attacks), if you use P+K or 1P your opponent can't do something that avoids both. You can use 2K and 1P but P+K and 1P is better because there's an option to beat 2K and 1P at the same time, 2K is also unsafe on block.
    No, I wrote the info because I was there for P+K CH K.
    Getting a CH from an high follow-up isn't impossible, you just need to condition your opponent.
     
    ExzetyXat1 likes this.
  5. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Ah, I thought you meant the sidekick string was unavoidable from the side, but I see what you meant now.

    Did you happen to know the frames when I hit with 1P from backturned and my opponent is sideturned? Trying to think what to do after landing the 1P, since, on its own, it's not really that big of a deal.
     
  6. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    Being at +3 with a ST opponent isn't that much of a deal, but you still have the + and a ST opponent.
    Being at +6 with a ST opponent is pretty good.
    If 1P CH the opponent you can hit-confirm it in K to knock down the opponent.
     
    ExzetyXat1 likes this.
  7. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    Perfect, thanks. Can use the 1P then just apply regular tactics on normal hit and go for the knockdown on counter hit.
     
  8. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    I think the part relative with ST 3KPK > SS P+K P/P can be fuzzy to avoid both situation.
     
    pana likes this.
  9. Zekiel

    Zekiel Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Zekiel-_
    ......I'll add more
    Turn knuckle on ch PKG( Were all should call this Flash Turn Knuckle from now on) 3ppp+k is unblockable and +6
    Also 17f moves are unblockable and a frame trap. good 4 high angle

    Using 44k and K+G on side turn hit after front evade (evade to jacky's front), it leaves them backturned. PPP is unblockable on NH but can be ducked. On CH its a combo. P+K is a frame trap. You can only block.
    66K+G4 on CH can lead to big dmg ( I recommend u use after OM though because its slow). OM or evade to your opponent front. On guard its +3 allowing K to hit.

    3ppp+k is unblockable oh hit +6NH +11CH.
    1p~SSP on CH is unblockable.

    Just like 4P2P, 4P2K is unblockable and +1 on NH +7 on ch.
    4PP is +2 on guard. Good 4 mind games because the combo looks (-) 4PK is +9 if blocked (not the best choice but faster then pp4pk)
    2K+G is -1 on NH. Good 4 CH 2p~PPP unblockable.
    Thats it
     
  10. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    It does but timing is really tight.
     
    ExzetyXat1, ManuSam and Dennis0201 like this.
  11. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    No. It isn't, only 3PP if the first P connects on NH.
    I couldn't land 17f moves after that PKG, I could only land P+K which is 16f.
    If you can prove that 17f moves are guaranteed or anyone else is able to land it, tell me and I'll edit the first post.
    Also, is it guaranteed or a "frame trap"? Then you can't confirm PKG, why would you do 6K which is unsafe if the first P is blocked?
    I think this is too situational but tell me if I should add it to the first post.
    If you want to get a CH and damage, OM 3K is better.
    66K+G4 isn't good on a ST IMO. It's really slow, punishable if evaded and it doesn't put the opponent in a guess since his 2P will beat everything except 66K+G4 SS P+KP, this isn't confirmable though.
    It's unblockable but not guaranteed. Then why would I use 1P which is not CHit-confirmable into SS P and slower than 3K instead of that last one?
    No, it's not unblockable and unsafe on block. And 4P2P is always better anyway.
    Why would use something punishable if ducked that only leaves you at +2 if guarded without giving you damage instead of using 4P2P (guaranteed if the first P is blocked, +4 after 2P connects, damage)?
    Yeah, I wouldn't use that. If the opponent ducks the second K he'll be able to punish you with a side kick (good damage).
     
    ExzetyXat1 likes this.
  12. Zekiel

    Zekiel Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Zekiel-_
    SMH yes 3ppp+k is unblockable. test it. 66K+G4 is not the best option all the time but when you use it it reaps big dmg up to 183 (def worth it). its + on block also. 3k is faster however if its blocked you have nothing and most players will 2p the string.
    Flash turn knuckle High angle works lol. your not doing it fast enough. l tested it. Its better to go for because the High A does from 63dmg to 102 dmg depending on weight class and forces the player to techroll for nitaku.
    evade 44k and K+G opponent backturned is not situational. you just evade in the correct direction. It works well because of the opponent backturned. l could give you more special evade combos but it seems like you and everyone else cant comprehend them let alone during a match
    1p~SSP or SSp+k is good because you can avoid high strings and get a normal CH or still have the Blue CH to SS. Compared to 3k which does nothing on Blue CH
     
  13. Zekiel

    Zekiel Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Zekiel-_
    ^Also 4 1p, it gives you the option of rage kick which is guaranteed but there is another use 4 3k.
    LOL lets see if any of you can comprehend this 1. Blue CH 3kpSSS(Opponents back)PP. With this if the opponent crouches evades or does a low its guaranteed, unless the character has fast turn attacks because you go behind the opponent. Good mix up for those that crouch the string. You have to hit confirm though because you might get a side crumple. You can always use 3kpk if they just block.

    Another 1 is PP6pp2k. This is good if you predict they will crouch after pp on pp4pk.
     
  14. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I've recorded the CPU doing it on my side and I can't block it. Going to edit the first post.
    Maybe I'm too slow, I just need someone else that can get it guaranteed.
    it = BT CH PKG on ST opponent > 6K
    Also, it's not confirmable. If the opponent blocks the first P he won't be ST anymore and you'll be at -15 after blocked 6K.
     
    ExzetyXat1 likes this.
  15. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    I tried it and I couldnt land even lightning kick which is 12f, let alone 16f moves..

    I tested on cpu and on myself recorded..
     
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  16. Zekiel

    Zekiel Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Zekiel-_
    You are starting to get on my nerves. OD. READ. I dnt think i explained this clearly. 44P has to be blocked from the side. Cuz in order to do combos with Turn knuckle you have to get a CH otherwise no combos work. It is hit confirmable. You just have to see if the turn knuckle hits or not.

    When you get the CH ,as fast as possible do PKG6K. Its unblockable. I tested it. You get it now?. Idk what you people are doing lol. Its like we have 2 different games or something
     
  17. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    If it's unblockable it's a bug.

    Theoretically the is no reason for that to be unblockable. If you were CH whilst side turned by Jacky's BT [P] you'd be at -8. If you're Sideturned at -8 you still have enough time to block a 12f move as it takes 3 frames to block. That means that the kick cancel would have to make up 6 frames for Jacky, which i don't think is the case.

    I don't think CH [4][4][P] will combo into BT [P] either, even if the opponent is sideturned. They may not be able to block the BT [P], but they should still be able to duck it.
     
  18. Zekiel

    Zekiel Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Zekiel-_
    .....SMH 44p has to blocked from the side because you have to get a CH with turn knuckle however l recommend using OM for this. Then you use PKGP+K or PKG6k in the fastest input. If your not getting 12f moves your either doing it incorrectly or not fast enough.
     
  19. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    You're assuming he didn't test it from the side. Sounds to me like he did.
     
  20. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    Zekiel, you've never written about 44P. You were talkin your own language, I didn't know what "Turn Knuckle" was. I though you were talking about PKG when you were saying "Turn Knuckle".

    Can you record a video and let us know what you're doing or you're so superior that we don't deserve that?
     
    ExzetyXat1 and Elite like this.

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