Jeffry..neglected but not forgotten.

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Freud, Mar 7, 2002.

  1. Freud

    Freud Well-Known Member

    With all the attention on Wolf being an all-rounded player, the only other heavy weight has been pretty left in the cold. I did some testing out on him and realise that there is still some loads of live rounds left in him.
    So i thought i'll start a thread to do some discussion on his styles.
    These are a few useful strategies i come up with for the big guy. Do add on and comment.
    Jeffry has HUGE damage combo potential once he hits, and most of the time, the next follow up for maximum damage require very simple finger work. He may not seem as agile as Wolf but his recovery is much faster than it seems. And he has a lot of delays in his canned combos to keep the guessing mind game, of defending against hit or throw, alive.

    d+P+K,d/b+P+K and f+P+K(Very good move) guarantee low throw(d+P+K+G or d/f+P+K+G or d,f+P+K+G). - once the first move hits, enter next command and the opponent is virtually half-gone))

    Knee, Knee,stomp or pounce is devastating enough for a basic move.

    b,f+p..caused a crumbling. My favourite follow-up is the canned K,K,P.
    Disgusting damage for such a simple follow up. Almost half-life bar gone if we add in a pounce.

    This Toe-kick of Doom combos are evil but hard to pull off with consistency. I have not figure out the correct timing yet. Anyone has luck with it?

    *Can you feel the REAL power? Go back to school.... *
  2. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    d+P+K,d/b+P+K and f+P+K(Very good move) guarantee low throw(d+P+K+G or d/f+P+K+G or d,f+P+K+G). - once the first move hits, enter next command and the opponent is virtually half-gone))

    Hell bank hammer (d+P+K): Decent move, decent execution, uncounterable when blocked.
    Overhead hammer (db+P+K): Slow execution, but uncounterable (throw counterable maybe?) when blocked.
    Mid hell stab (f+P+K): Slow execution, and punch/throw counterable. Yeah, it gives a KD stun when it hits, but low throws are escapable. Still, you have a one-in-three chance of doing a successful throw escape, so that's not too bad.

    Just to add a little to this thread, I think these moves are important, too:

    Standing punch, low punch, elbow: Jeffry's best poke attacks, esp. low punch.
    Shot knee: Good execution, and almost uncounterable
    Knee: Jeffry's best floater (IMO). Throw counterable, but a little option select can cover you.

    This Toe-kick of Doom combos are evil but hard to pull off with consistency. I have not figure out the correct timing yet.

    <a target="_blank" href=>Have you been under a rock, man?!</a>/versus/images/icons/smile.gif
  3. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Yeah, Jeff still has the potential to dish it out very quickly. His combo power is probably on par with Wolf's (which is to say they can do 35-40% without a lot of effort). Of the moves you sited, I do think that the f,b+P and the b,f+P probably don't get the recognition for being as good as they are. Neither are counterable and both give good to great situational results on connecting (not to muention both sober up the bastard old man quite well) They're only real drawback is how slow they are. The f,b is as slow as a knee and the b,f even slower, and the fact that they're high attacks doesn't help their case. Given the fact that the knee is only punch and throw counterable and not worse, most folks tend to trade the "uncounterable" for the mid attack.

    I don't think I'll be the only one to point this out, but knee->knee->down attack is QR/TRable, so the pounce is usually a non-factor here. That and the d+P+K doesn't ever guarantee you a low throw, even on MC. It's still a good tac to try every now and then, after you've stuffed enough low punch attempts with a shot knee->punch follow up.

    TKoD things do help him out a bit (if you can do them reliably enough to make part of your strategy), but overall Wolf does have the better set of hit throws, and Wolf's catch throws tend to swing the close game a bit more to his side.
  4. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    The best point of reference for execution of the TKoD "Toe Kick of Doom" is to execute the "qcf+P+G" during the recovery animation.

    This is a rough chronological description of the hit-states:

    1-Hit animation... opponent will dip down due to the impact of the toe kick. Use their head as a reference.

    2-Recovery animation... opponent will start to recover from the hit and starts to go back a normal pose. If you're looking at their head then you'll notice that it will start to raise back to a normal posture.

    3- Normal : Opponent is out of the hit-stun and can execute move/block. Its too late.

    So basically:
    -execute the "qcf+P+G" when the opponents head is on its back way up.

    edit: just correcting the motion, it's qcf, not qcb -- myke
  5. Wen

    Wen Member

    That's because Jeff is fairly weak IMO

    I find Jeff to be kinda weak against a DTE-G defense.
    Even when you KNOW they are going to DTE-G, and DTE with which throw escapes, he cannot do much.

    That's because:

    1) His throws aren't that good. If the opponent DTE-G with f and d/f P+G, then your next best throw is d+P+G at 50. Not very impressive for a heavyweight. Wolf's 3rd best clocks in at 70 damage. Hell, I think Pai can do 50 on her third best throw.

    2) He has no good break guard move. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing much significant guaranteed after his f+K+G break guard. Unlike Lau, Akira, etc. When you KNOW he will block, there is nothing much you can do still.

    3) He has crappy low attacks. None which knockdown, all which leave him counterable on block, and disadvantaged on hit. Other characters facing a DTE-G can at least knockdown with a sweep-type move and apply wakeup pressure. Jeff can do one of his 3 low kicks, take the 20 damage, and continue the flowchart disadvantaged.

    4) He has minimal moves that give advantage on block. Ok, so you have no good break guard moves, and no good third throw. At least if you have a move that gives good advantage on block, when you predict a DTE-G, you can start a flowchart off these moves. (eg. Sarah) Jeff has....uh.....high P?

    That said, I think Jeff is decent with his back to the ring edge or wall. At least then his d/b+P+G throw forces the opponent to defend more options.

    Otherwise, characters with a throw but not strike counterable floater (most of 'em) can attempt them with a DTE-G, and get pretty decent risk-rewards against Jeff. Thank god he doesn't float very high though.
  6. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    I disagree...

    Actually, Jeff has something very nice for DTE-G. His stance guarded P, throw. 40 damage for the throw with no escape and a free down hit. Usually you can easily net 65+ damage from this.

    You can use his b+P+G as a nice 20 damage set up for shot knee-hook punch, which is pretty much guaranteed if they tech roll the throw. Either way, you're still around 60 damage.

    DTE-G isn't that rough for Jeff at all.
  7. Rodnutz

    Rodnutz Well-Known Member

    Re: I disagree...

    I kinda agree with nutlog. Even if my opponent DTE-G. I still find other ways of doing reasonable damage. And it's obvious that most opponents will DTE forward and down/forward, so I really don't concentrate on doing those throws first. Instead I concentrate more on mind and pick up games with Jeffry to lure then into concentrating more on blocking that throw escaping. Once I think that that is done, its open season for all kind of throws. So when I want to do splash mountan, or front backbreaker, etc. I never seem to have a hard time getting them. I don't know if its just me but they seem to come pretty easy, even playing against high level play. And your right he does have to many moves that even when they connect they leave him at a disadvantage. But still the ability to be effective with him is there in my opinion and personal experience.
  8. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: I disagree...

    The other disadvantage to DTE-G is kinda obvious... just wait before throwing. In jeff's case crouch dash, delay for a split second, then when they're done entering the DTE-G (and you see them guarding), crucify them.

    Someone will argue 'yeah but that will only work once or twice' but that's ok. They'll adapt by doing something other than DTE-G, for example attack, then you'll adapt to that by interrupting the attack (or whichever they do). No big deal.
  9. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: I disagree...

    I'm not sure if this still works in C, but in B, the stance P throw can be comboed into d+K+G > u+K+G for very, very good damage (as mentioned in my Dojo =).

    That said, Wen, I think there are very few people who can do DTEG with any consistency (I don't even think Japanese players bother, though I don't know for sure). If people are telling you they do DTEG, try delaying a throw a little bit.

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