Jeff's Overall ability, and stance question

I've been lurking on thse boards for awhile now... i used to have a username back in the day... around the time Sega Cities was flourishing... but that's neither here nor there. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

I've been playing VF4 (PS2) and loving it, and i'm noticing that Jeff hasn't been spectacularly empowered in this installment. In fact, he seems sorta weak. Sure he's got TKoD (much easier to pull off now), and MHS - MGH is guaranteed, but he seems like he's missing something for a guy that's so slow.

I also noticed, however, that he can switch from open to closed stance (and more importantly, back again) with very little effort, just by inching forward on the stick. AFAIK, the only other character capable of switching stance this way is Pai.

Anyway, i'm wondering if this may confer some advantage to my boy Jeff. Are there any stance-specific combos i should be aware of for Jeff? Does stance affect how well attacks connect? Is there some other major Jeff strategy i'm missing? Or should i just learn Wolf instead?

Thanks for being patient with an intermediate player.

 

Hmmm... noticed that under my name it says "stranger"... maybe that's why no one is replying... /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

But that's ok. Can anyone tell me where to go to find out if open/closed stance affects chance to hit in VF4 (i know it did in other games in the series)? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

in my opinion, Jeff is not weak. Might be slower but he has the damage potential to make up for it. He is actually faster than he looks and good Jeff players are very intimidating, always forcing guessing games with his delay attacks and throws.

A lot of the Jeff's follow-up combos to float and crumbles are hard to fumble and comes with high returns. But of course, most agree that Wolf has a better set of throws.

For the open/close stance part, its does affect whether certain float combos may connect or not. But most of time, it does not affect the initial hits much. Not such about any Jeff's combo being affect by stance, you have to do research on it. Just to explain a little further.. i use this example..
Lion's b,b+K+G,P+K (floats)...
his K,K follow-up will connect in open stance however in close stance, this combo will whiff.

 

Make sure you check out my Jeffry Dojo. It's a little outdated as Jeffry did change quite a bit in Version C, but most of the stuff is still applicable. In any case, his Dojo will the be first that I upgrade now that my Blue Book has arrived.

 

Thanks for the input; and no i don't really think Jeff is weak... it just seems that way at times because i lose to cheesy CPU... /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

I've just gotta learn how to stop the rush... and i need to figure out something that would be worthwhile to use as a low attack with Jeff. The only decent low attack he had was the Ducking Low, and that was wussified for version C. Now i have to depend on df+K+G and db+K... the word "slow" doesn't even begin to cover the situation. My opponents can safely duck at long range, but really they don't even have to. They can just stand and block, and pound on the punch button as i try to close the distance. kinda frustrating, but like i said, i'm an intermediate, lol.

BTW, Ice, nice job on the dojo... i learned some key stuffs, like that a blocked f+K+G gives you a decent throw attempt. This whole site is just breath of fresh air after basically drowning in the muck that is DOA discussion. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks again. Anything else anyone would like to add would go over well.

 

Jeff's low punch is one of the best in the game IMO because of his long arms. If you're opponents are jamming on punch as you say, your low punch will interrupt them giving you a pretty much guaranteed throw opportunity.

Try closing distance with the ff+P dashing elbow, and switch up between the canned (delayed) uppercut and throws, or G-cancel into a low punch. Jeff's dashing elbow is very good for getting up close and personal against opponents that are trying to back away.

 

oh..against the CPU...actually i have less trouble using Jeffry against it. than my best character, Lion.
A lot of times, 2 or 3 "hits" can get me the game.
1) They give free low-throws after f+P+K and d+P+K... try landing one of these and immediately enter a low-throw command. After a foot stomp, half their bar is gone. I played my Jeff til 5th dan(before he got "corrupted"), and never once did the CPU escape any low throw from this set up.
2) b,f+P...this elbow stuns the opponent when hit for a no-brainer K,K,P.
3) Back off with a dash and use b,df+P,P. This move has high hit percentage against CPU. I guess its because every time u dash backwards, they try to move in and u usually get them while they are moving forward. The same for Lion's b,b+K which i will excecute after a back dash.
4) This one... my favourite from the Jeffry's Dojo(thank you Ice-g). splash mountain after closing in with df+P+K,P.
5) The easy way out with the Box-throw, bd+P+G and a f,f+P,P or b+P to get them over the edge of a wall-less stage. But CPU will start to escape this move if u use this method more than twice in a game.
I use this 5 moves alot, such that they just come natural and i can beat the CPU without really thinking. Never tried them against "live" targets though,but i figure that they would work out equally well as long as u manage to find the opportunity to get your "first" hits in.

 

I don't use d+P+K as much as b+P+K, which means i'm probably not using it as much as i should. And although everyone says so, i never use low punch either. I'm going to start incorporating it immediately. I still feel like i need a solid low attack, though, at least to keep people honest. Low punch is good for this, but is considered cheese 'round these parts. I don't know why. So is pouncing. Which takes away probably two of the techniques most important to Jeff players.
Dang it.

Anyway, while i've got everyone's attention... what happened to everybody's backflips? Sarah still has hers (b,b from Flamingo), but where's Jerky's? Shun's? Kage's second one? Oh well. At least jumping has been improved.

 

Well, i didn't spend much time researching, but i've already found that df+P,P f+K u+P is pretty much guaranteed after the second uppercut for decent damage. Maybe this was known already, but it only works in closed stance.

Pretty nice how the second uppercut always floats, eh? /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Might want to cut the pounce out of that combo. A tech roll will easily escape it.

 

Yeah, you're right; i was playing around with it after i posted that and noticed that the landing can be tech rolled... but you're pretty close to the opponent when this happens, which means you can followup with all kinds of nice throw/strike guessing games.

But it makes me wonder what other nasty stance-specific combos Jeff has. Like i said, it might not mean much to most people, but being able to easily control stance like that is important to me as a Jeff player, because he really doesn't have so many advantages (well, besides strength and reach, which don't mean as much because he's so slow).

 

Hey Aeon, thanks for the positive feedback. =)

Jeffry actually underwent a significant though subtle shift in how he should be played from Version B to C. In B, he was a well rounded character with a lot of options--good middle attacks, good damage potential, lots of throws, one decent low attack, etc. In C, however, you should think of him more as a nitaku (or 50/50) type of a character. You should be looking to throw or hellstab/knee as opposed to throw/middle/d+K+G from before.

Why? In Version C Jeffry only has two powerful throws ending in f+P+G and d/f+P+G and d+P+G as a third alternative. His b+P+G doesn't do great damage and he still has nothing guaranteed after d/b+P+G. However, his attacks have gotten much better. His f+P+K now always SKDs for good damage and his d/f+P,P is actually pretty decent. So your mindset when playing him should shift from a character who can cause damage in a variety of ways to a character that causes big damage in a limited number of ways.

 

I've been trying to adjust my style the way you said, and am still being frustrated by some of the quicker characters.

I was going through the Ver. C movelist, and noticed one little thing: b,f,f+P+K fully charged now hits high instead of mid, and i had no idea why. So, assuming that the hit location was changed for a reason, and without a human to play against at the time, i tested it out against CPU in training mode, and found that even when told to "guard all", the CPU failed to guard against the fully charged b,f,f+P+K (which, again, hits high now, whereas partial or no charge still hits mid).

So then i'm thinking, OMG it's unblockable when fully charged, and it would be great because if the opppnent decides to duck it, you let off the charge and hit them mid. But i'm pretty sure this is still not the case. I doubt it's unblockable. Maybe just a glitch in AI or something where the CPU decides to stop guarding after awhile. But then the whole thing begs the question. "why did AM2 change the hit location at all?"

Can anyone else confirm or exaplin?

 

For versus play, if you're having trouble initiating your offense, don't forget to use P(G) and d+P!

As for the b,f,f+P+K, this move underwent a huge improvement in C. Yes, fully charged it is a high unblockable, and normally it is a middle hit! Better yet, if not fully charged, the move will cause a guard stagger if blocked, giving Jeffry an opportunity to nitaku.

Basically, I think what AM2 is trying to say is that if you can't learn to dodge a 49 (60 fully charged) frame executing move, you deserve to be punished. =)

 

Nitaku was the bread and butter of Jeffrey in VF2. Looks like they wanted to keep him that way, I guess.

Mason

 

Yes, it sure does. Fully charged hits high and is unblockable, at least according to me and Ice /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
I wouldn't have known, either, except i was experimenting with followups to the block stagger with this move. Another good thing about this is that i can also throw in b,f,f+P to really vary timing (since it looks so much like b,f,f+P+K). Although i don't know how truly useful it is in this regard.

On a side note, I am trying to use d+P and P(G) more often... especially against hurricane Lei Feis.