Just how good are YOU? And how do you tell?

Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Pro.


Those are the 4 levels of players that most people commonly refer to - unless there's another one that I missed out.


So what level do YOU think you are in?


And how do you tell? Is there an effective objective way of going about it? Like being able to perform certain juggles/combos or like beating a certain number of ppl, etc...


Take me for instance. Where I live, my only human opponents are my buddies, who are basically scrubs, so how can I effectively tell how good I am? Beating them is pretty easy, so I don't that matters very much.

 

I think to give out level-of-play distinctions, it's important to specify where you're from and your exposure to real versus play. In other words, in you apply these levels to the world, then no one in North America would be pro - that would be reserved for the highest level of players in Japan.

The way I see it, if you've played a handful of buddies at home and have never strayed outside of that circle, then you're going to most likely become an Intermediate player. There's even levels inside of that, to be honest. If you've gone beyond your little home niche, attended a tournament, gathering etc and *done well* and can hold your own, then you're moving into the advanced category.

Most of the regulars on VFDC I would say are Intermediate to Advanced under your criteria. There are a few stellar players around the continent who would be Advanced-plus, but not pros.

Hmm...where do I fit myself? Well, I'd say than I am an advanced player for sure. I can hold my own. I've won a Evo tournament this year, and I hope to win or place at others before the year is out. Those that I regularly play with here in Toronto, I would also consider to be advanced, as I certainly cannot beat them down and competition is always stiff. None of us are pro. However, that being said, I truly believe that if I could spend a few months in Japan exposing myself to that environment that I have the potential to be competitive at a high level there.

It's a tough call - I've played a lot of people around NA and I can't say that anyone is light years ahead of anyone else. Upcoming tournaments will not be easy to win, I can say that with certainty /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cheers,

 

I suck.

 

I'll get it out of the way and say I'm intermediate.

I guess when I judge how good a player is, it falls into a few rough categories:

knowledge/theory
execution
brains

Knowledge/theory --
-Does the player know how to TR and throw escape? If no... beginner.
-Does the player know a reliable followup to their floats/flop/crumples that will take off at least 30-50 pts after the initial hit? If no... beginner.
-Does the player know the difference between getting staggered by an elbow and getting hit by one? Or between a MC knee and a knee vs a crouching defender? Does the player use jabs, low punches, and elbow-type moves instead of using big attacks all the time? If the answer to any of those is no... beginner. Does the player understand throw counterable moves and at least TRY to throw them? If no... beginner.

Execution - does the player fuck up single throw escapes, even if they know the right way to do them? Does the player fail to dodge, always, through no fault of the sticks? Do they screw up fuzzy guarding in simple neutral situations? Do they blow combos even if the combo doesn't involve modified attacks or difficult inputs? Do they stick to simple and weak canned combos because they're scared to even TRY modified stuff? Do they eat non-guaranteed combos off of weak elbow staggers? Do they fail to react in time to throw -12 moves? If yes is the answer to these, ...beginner.
Does the player know about (and try to do) stuff like ETEG, multiple throw escapes, low throw escapes, dodge into modified attacks, etc? If they do this stuff with some consistency that's closer to intermediate. If they do this stuff with scary consistency that's closer to expert level. Or take struggling for example -
Beginners can't struggle out of akira's dodge attack --> pounce.
Intermediate players can't consistently struggle out of lei fei's IN low kick combo every time.
Expert players can struggle out of anything that isn't guaranteed including stuff like lau and akira's st --> palm combos. There are exceptions. Some good players just suck at struggling. Some novice players pick it up and do it every time right away. But most players seem fall into the pattern.


Brains - How fast does the player adapt to patterns? How often will they fall for the same trick over and over? How good are they at predicting and escaping throws? How reliably will they use the correct, guaranteed minor counter in situations where good followups are guaranteed (i.e. a beginner lau throws after a blocked dodge attack while an expert lau generally takes his free b,f+P combo). How good are they at dealing with some of the situations on the game that limit your options? Beginner players eat elbow-backfist over and over. Intermediate players duck the backfist and sometimes might throw it. Good players always duck the backfist and nail jacky with a shrm or rising knee or similar hit before he recovers.

Anyway, if you're wondering how good you are... and you've been playing local scrubs and killing them... you're probably no better than intermediate and maybe not even there. It's safe to say you're intermediate if you understand and can do 99 percent of the stuff you read about on VFDC in a 'lab situation' (free training). How good you are BEYOND that depends on how much of that information you absorb and use in real battles. It's one thing to know "I can punish TR's" and another thing to turn every single TR into a difficult 50/50 guessing game for the opponent. If you can make the opponent hate and fear tech rolling then you're halfway decent /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway, enough blahblah. Gotta play some more.

 

I am easily affected by joysticks

I SUCK!

Period!

I admit it anyday!

 

It's probably also helpful to distinguish between beginners who are good and bad, intermediate players who are good and bad, etc.

I have played against players that know the theory and mechanics but are just terrible in a real game situation. I have also played beginners that don't know much but have a knack for winning.

There is such a thing as "talent" in fighting games!

 

yea something like superior manual dexterity is something which is kinda inborn...training can onli take u tt far.

 

Absolutely. I was trying to get at that when I said that there are levels amongst the criteria earlier. And it's so true about talent. There's no reason to not categorize a fighting game as something in which talent plays a role. I do however think that moreso than talent, to be really good at VF you have to be dedicated and play A LOT. The more experience you have playing, the better you will be, hands down. It's a conditioning that is required to be really good. Excellent players are the ones who have seen it all, repeated it, and seen it again.

The other part of being good is Yomi. And perhaps this is part and parcel with talent. Being able to predict what your opponent will do is a remarkable skill. Most of us mask this by using option select to cover our ass, but I think there are some that use option select minimally, if at all, and are still able to guess right most of the time. That's yomi, and that's true talent.

cheers,

 

Wow, thanks guys, that's some really good criteria to judge my standing.

Knowledge/theory: As far as this goes, I'd say that I got it down pretty well - at least for my main characters. I pretty much visit this site everyday adn read a bunch of theory stuff and watch the movies - most of which I am starting to understand.

Execution: I can do most of the techniques and combos prescribed in the FAQs in Training Mode, but I'm still working to apply them in real fights. But yeah, I can do them in training mode.

Brains: This part is what stumps me due to lack of competition. As I mentioned earlier, I only get to play the local scrubs who know, at most, 4 or 5 moves and keep abusing them and mash. So killing them is a piece of cake, but that's only coz they can't recover from stagger or throw escape or do any of the fancy stuff. And when I fight them, I dont really have to think too hard. Kinda like playing the computer. I know they're not gonna do anything fancy so I dont have to worry too much about doing multiple throw escapes or worry about my tech rolling, etc. This is why I don't get much practice with my strategy...

So all in all, I'd say that I am an upper level Beginner, or a very very low Intermediate. I think I'm closer to the upper level Beginner though.

I guess I'll just have to practice more - not that it's a bad thing. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Man...In VF4 my defence was great, rarely did i get hit with floaters...then i imported vf evo and all the new moves have me frozen...the only problem i had were throw escapes and EDTE...but back to the post creed has the right idea with the ranking post...to really be "ON EM"
you gotta do it all.

 

That's a very good question ! I don't know but I guess it's relative to who you play against. But I think I'm somewhere between intermediate and advanced. If I was in Japan and attented a couple of tourneys there, I'd probably know for sure. Who knows I'm probably a first class scrub. Saying how good you are online isn't worth much if you don't have some type of visual proof to back it up. Lets just hope for a VF online. Hey maybe VF5 who knows. I agree with Creeds criterias for knowing how good you are. I also agree that you got to be good with the stick or the pad, and also be determined. Some guys are good but don't spend alot of time practicing the game. I try to learn every character in the game, not to perfection, but to a certain level so that when I play against someone who uses that particular character I don't end up being surprised by a certain move or pattern which I think is very important in VF. My brother picks Pai and loses 5 times and : "Oh she sucks ! Why is she in the game ?" Me I lose and while I'm losing, I'm remembering every little detail that made me lose, it helps alot when you use your main character. Like I said before in another thread :this game is like chess man.

 

Even though I am missing my right arm due to a car accident three years ago. I consider myself an advance to pro player. My yomi skills are so well developed that I sometimes don't need to use my face to hit the button. I just use my left hand to evade or crouch dash out of the way and cause a ring out.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

I am sorry that I drove u home while I was drunk that night

So sorry, old friend

 

I'll go w/ Intermediate. Then again, my competition is probably tougher than most peoples here (and I don't play that much anymore).

Unlike Creed, I judge a player by:
Variety
Balls
Defense

Variety - If someone does Jacky's or Lau's and waits for the stagger to pummel me over and over, I don't graduate them to a strong player until they can show me some variety. Doing the same thing, while affectvie sometimes, get's boring.

Balls - can you pull off the tricky moves?

Defense - too often people will ONLY dodge. Then I sweep their legs out about 3-4 times and they'll eventually stop. Some people ONLY throw escape (and get whacked in the process). Some people are good (and fast enough) to do both - these are the strong players. Anyone can get lucky w/ a high damaging combo a couple of times a match and win. Only a few people can get out of a tight spot and turn the match around.

I'm kind of in the middle on all of them.

That's just me though

 

GP, I've never played you, but your exposure to that environment and the proven fact that you're able to maintain high dan level characters (Aoi, no less!) would be an indication to me that you would wipe the floor with most of the best North American players. From a North American standard, your a highly advanced player I would wager.

 

Llan, I finally noticed that picture in your sig says "toronto pai" hehe, that's cool.
/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Im the best VF player youve never heard about. Im the Earl the goat Manigold of VF

 

It can be difficult to tell how good you are if you only play against a limited number of people...

Unfortunatley, if you wipe the floor with your friends it may not mean that you are getting better... I'd say, if you had a few friends would would trade wins with you, then you are on a right start... If you discover a new tatic or trick and begin to win more matches, and then they eventually adapt or come up with tricks of their own and tip the scale of wins in their balance, then you guys are getting better... If you come up with effective flow charts on your own then you are becoming better...

Best way to judge how good, in relation to the scene of NA as a whole, is to play other people... If you manage to meet anyone on this board, they could probably give you a good idea where your skill level is at, and what can be done to improve it...

Also, how well do you do at other fighting games? If you do well at them, then it is quite possible that you have the mindset to do well at Virtua Fighter (perhaps even without the stiffest competition)... Namflow plays Capcom VS SNK II using some techniques from VF (such as opponent rising throw/attack guessing game, and whiffing attacks to bait opponents in)... He does well in CVS2 with these techniques, and also does well in VF... By simply watching him play CVS2 you can tell he has a good idea of predicting what the opponent is going to do, or making them do what he wants them too...

Knowledge of the game engine, frame stats, etc can improve your game but is by no means necessary to be a hard player to beat. If you play enough then you will grow to learn at what points it's good to attack, dodge, throw etc without actually thinking "I have frame advantage now, time to attack."

Being able to pull of damaging combos after a lifter also makes you good, but you don't need to pull of stance specific, max damage combos -every- time you have a chance to win. Feel free to stick to non-stance specific combos that deal an ok amount of damage, and don't get thrown off if you miss a float combo entirely - just keep going. If you are good that won't be the only chance you have to deal damage.

-Alex

 

I'm so good the CPU won't play against me anymore. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Jesterday I murdered a rock
Injured a stone
hospitalised a brick
Im so mean I make medecine sick.

I still suck at VF4 Evo tough.