K+G in a nutshell

it's broken

 

I find my best luck using it when they're getting up. You have to time it right, but if you do, they have like 1/10th of a second their time to duck. It's not the best move, especially when they roll towards you. But I do like it as a wake up move.

 

I should probably use a different term than oki /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif...

 

Yes It's really only good agaisnt n00bs. I also seldomly use it.

 

As always good job sebo /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif (was it my PM that made you do this thread btw?)

May i also add a couple of things? first of all, let's remember that the move is full circular. Nobody will try to sidestep it anyway (happened to me only once by a pre-VF4 old timer who had good reflexes but din't know vanessa). So that doesn't mean anything by itself.

However there's a catch: on occasion this move jumps over opponents. This happens only if vanessa performs the move while really close, practically on top of a downed opponent (after the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif throw is just about the right distance).

This fact, combined with the move being full circular means that sometimes vanessa ends up hitting opponents who get up with a rising kick from behind. If that happens the opponent is back turned, throw does 50 damage but i'd propose a DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif combo. Works pretty well against new players who tend to get up with rising kicks up every time .

Speaking of OS, sebo did an excellent job explaining vane's DS options, and i'm no expert, i'd just like to say from OS she has a lot of other options. At least that's xwhat i'm seeing on vids. After the move connects /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif seems like a safe bet since it's +1 on block (if the opponent is *really* good at struggling, the move takes only 14 frames to come out). It will also float if the opponent is staggered and i also think it will float on sidehit (could an expert confirm this?). Anyway, follow up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to go back to OS or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to stay at DS.

If you see that your opponent does not have great struggling skills you could even try /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif instead. Has the exact same properties, so use the same floats afterwards.

Finally, and this is where i disagree with sebo a bit, if you're feeling really lucky OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif hurts really bad on a staggered or sideturned opponent since the move comboes. Lots of damage and easy as hell. Oki options afterwards too. Works like a charm on xbox live /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

PS: bear in mind that all of this is pretty complicated for me , like i said, i'm not expert. I like to keep it simple. The first time /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif connects against an opponent i try OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to slam him down. If he blocks it the next time i mix it up with a throw. Pretty basic but it works on mediocre players like me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif

 

if i saw k+g from vanessa just patiently duck under it and when it misses i input a throw during her recovery

 

I rarely ever use it personally and if I want to use a circular attack I would use the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (DS) or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. The risk of these moves aren't as high doing the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif move. I will time it every so often but not very much. I see it as a noob related move and try not to use it when I use my vanessa and focus on the safer and harder hitting moves in her game. When I see higher ranked vanessa's that use it alot, it really embarrasing to think of the many people that fell for that one move to allow them to reach 6th dan or higher. I just laugh to myself when I think about that.

 

Shadowmaster, you are overlooking the fact that, whereas DS has the 2 additional full circulars you mention, OS only has one, and that's k+g.

When you're in OS there's always an opponent who thinks he can sidestep you all the time. You can either:

b) throw, hoping the opponent is not good a TE/hasn't buffered p+k
a) use one of her semicirculars, hoping you guessed right
c) k+g, hoping he won't boxstep-duck

It's all about guessing right.

 

This is the one reason why I would use it, to keep them guessing using the threat of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to keep people honest making her powerful mids and throws more effective. I would use it once in a while as I said before but not enough to where people know to start ducking under it all the time like noob vanessa's do all the time.

 

There's no "guess" or "threat" with this move. It can be ducked on reaction and opponent can punish with the heaviest move they got.

 

^ Yeah.

"."


I had a long essay-like response, but it would have just been redundant.

 

The move is also useful against ying yang-happy Aois.

Jeneric of course, at your high level, due to your big experience and honed reflexes, there is no guessing involved. I have no illusions about you being able to duck it on reaction. However, against an <s>average</s> scrubby player like me, doing k+g when i'm not expecting can result in me eating it. Even if i've used the move so many times and had it used against me even more.

 

I'm not a high level player.

What my point is that this move is purely for abusing on the unknowing. Against people who do know about it you'll just get raped for using this. So it would be wise to NOT think of this move as a part of your gameplan for beating evades or anything like that. Abuse it if it works.

 

lol advice

 

I agree with Jeneric. From fighting many vanes I almost always duck this move unless someone in my room called my name and I wasn't looking. I actually hope they are going to throw it so I can go for a big juggle or just throw game afterwards.

It works best on the ignorant.

 

I like to throw K + G out there every once in awhile in a fight against someone I haven't fought before while in an advantagous situation just to see if the person I'm fighting knows anything about fighting Vanessa... The massive damage I can do with a successful hit, though, while intoxicating, is still not worth the amount of punishment that can be stringed onto me...

I mostly find myself using it when I'm fighting a spacer...

 

question. How about doing K+G when u know they are gonna try a throw??? Like, instead of crouching to avoid the throw, u just K+G instead. Leading to big damage. There are simpler ways to avoid a throw on reaction but this one has some style at least. Like, with Shun, using 6P+K to avoid throws. Just an idea, Im not a Vanessa player.

 

Unfortunately the move will most probably throw clash.

 

Im pretty sure I've seen it throw clash, and even if didn't I <s>think</s> know there are better moves to beat out throw clash with.

I don't know if I've said it before, but the absolute best time to use this move is when your opponent techrolls. If they do anything but duck when they get up it's a wrap.

 

The move does indeed clash. And even if it didn't, it so slow that opponents would probably be able to recover from the throw whiff and duck.