Kage... must.... DIE!!!

Okay, so I have been learning VF5 for about a month or so, I have learned most of Brads move set, and I am really starting to get a feel for the game. I am FAR from being what I would call a "competent" player, but I am getting there. However my friend has been learning at the same time, he has less access to a copy of Virtua Fighter 5 than me and therefor has less knowledge of his character; yet he is still tearing me up with his Kage. His low to mid mix ups are killing me.

I am used to playing a keep out game with Brad, but Kage rips me apart when I try this; his 'Jisuberubashiri" (running low sweep) is brutally fast, also I constantly get caught with his "Hagaryu" (the quick lunging middle kick with the screw driver like motion).

Also I am having a lot of problems with his down attacks, it seems even when I tech roll out of them I keep getting hit by them when I am standing. This is the only character I have this problem with...

Even when I am in close I can't seem to pull anything great off with an consistency. He always knocks me out of my sways before I can pull anything off on him and even my quick elbow gets stuffed all the time.

In general he just seems so fast and competent at every range, in every position...

Please, any help or tricks against this character would be very appreciated.

 

....ok

 

I accidentally posted the topic when I wasn't even close to ready; I tried to edit it as fast as I could, hoping that I could fix it before anyone noticed... It didn't turn out so well... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

 

I can deal with him just fine up close but if he gets out of my range i'm screwed /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

So you suggest abandoning the keep out game and close the distance? I have noticed that is basic jab combo is quicker than Brads, plus he can abandon the last jab and replace it with a very quick middle kick followed by a very quick sweep...

 

Both of the moves that you listed as giving you the most problems are linear so evading would help. Also both of those moves when blocked leave Kage at a big disadvantage for you to take advantage of.
http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?ver=5c&chara=kage

I recommend you play with Kage also (Quest/Dojo), that should help you understand his strengths and weaknesses better.

 

DM P+K will solve all your problems!

 

Also to evade Kage's turn around mid kick, you need to evade towards Kage's back and punish him once you've evaded. I think punch, kick is guarenteed or you can try for a throw. However if it's blocked, Kage is safe which sucks. Try to get a pattern of what your friend actually does after doing this attack. If he ducks a lot afterwards, do a mid attack. If he sidesteps or does a DM P+K, do a full circular attack or just anticipate, block and punish him.

As for his long range low and mid attacks, I hear ya man...it can be tricky to deal with especially with online lag. Just make sure that you punish him BIG time once you get the chance. If you block the low sweep, I think you can do Brad's F, F + kick knee juggle. If not, do his elbow, kick. You can block his mid attack but try to evade and punish. Make sure you know Brad's combos so you can dish out some damage when the opportunity arises. Man when Kage starts incorporating throws in his game, that's when he gets frustrating...does your friend do a lot of throws?

 

No, it is just as fast. And the last string you are describing is propably Kages PPKK and theres no mid kick in there anywhere. Its high-high-high-low. Just crouch block the whole thing, or better still, low punch while he is doing it.

Try use Brads simple /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif more and you start hitting opponents more.

Brads sways arent invulnerable (while they can evade some higs/mids depending on timing) so you really have to learn by experience when to try them. Dont try to overuse them.

 

I agree! I say DM that shit! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

I think Brad's rush-down is pretty hard to stop if you know how to stay in their face. I have trouble against Brad cause I'll eat a few hits, look to evade... Brad is swaying/ducking/turning... my evade fails and I eat the left hook or some other devastating move.

It's hard to tell what level you are playing the game at since, admittedly, you are a newer player. Are you using evades and OM? Fuzzy guard or any other more "advanced" defensive technique? Brad can dance around the ring pretty well; that alone is confusing as hell to me. Plus, his Oki game can rip you to shreds... Really practice pressuring against your friend's wake-up game.

No one here is going to deny that Kage is a tough opponent; he has the tools to kill you. His lunging sweep gets me every time too...

 

Thanks a lot guys, most of this info is pure gold. I plan on making him pay, oh how he will pay.

As for your questions Gurnbergs...

"Are you using evades and OM?"

Yes sir. I tend to evade more than I use the OM; I am trying to work it into my game, but there is just so much to remember...

"Fuzzy guard or any other more "advanced" defensive technique?"

I use the fuzzy guard, although I am still a little inconsistent with it. I don't do any other advanced defensive moves as far as I know...

"Plus, his Oki game can rip you to shreds..."

I didn't know what an Oki game was until I read this and looked it up...

 

Eh I still don't use OM much...
occationally il slip it in there cause they won't expect me to close distance so fast so its basically a very fast forward dash+punch, it actually has no evade properties /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

DM+ P+K= amazing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
if it hits u have a HUGE advantage too, also amazing for Low punch spams

and ya make sure u stay inside, kage has a THOUSAND TIMES BETTER long range game then Brad. he prob has the best long range stuff in the game actually, his cart-wheel, the weird backwards and forward flip kicks, his crazy drill-kick thing which has huge range, the super fast low slide attack thing, its just crazy.

while all Brad has is his flying knee which has shitty range and startup, and his super long back kick thing which is a biatch to input.

stay inside using low-punishment moves like brads /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif elbow -> Stance. if he hits u while u are slipping or w/e try phase turning, or use delayed combos instead of going into stance (like hitting the kick after the elbow) to scare him away from doing that.
Brad is pretty much all about pressure.

 

OM has evasive properties. It can even go through fullcirculars and throws if timed right...

Brad's DMPK isn't anything to write home about. 25dmg, +2 on hit, +6 on MC and as always -14 on block. Some characters really have overall useful DMPK's but I can't see Brad as one of them.

I can agree that the key to fighting against Kage is keeping the pressure on. Allowing spacing + shippu = death combination. Have to be careful about it though, Kage has tools to overcome anticipated attacks.
Kages moves you mentioned aren't that big of a threat. Every single one is linear. f+K+G is badly punishable on block, f,f+K+G even way more. uf+K+G is also linear although safe. ub+K is pretty good. The slide you mean must be running K which is kind of obvious because it's a running attack (well alright, I take it everytime too...).

As for Brad's long range stuff, while it isn't exactly the range where Brad shines he's got tools to compete.
b+K; df,df+P,P; df+K; FC b+K and just going for DCK come to mind first.

Try to not let Kage control the pace and anticipate his gameplan. I think these are more important against Kage and Lei than anyone else. At least that's the way I see it.

 

LOL @ DM P+K... it's the only move I ever use in the game!

Seriously, most keep-away kages will just back off and do run-in-and-sliding-low-kick, which you can easily sidestep. The best way to deal with a keep-away kage is to stay in his face and not let him get into stance or back off to launch some cheeseball flying or sliding kick at you. It may not seem like it, but 66p+k>continuation works well in this regard, as does 4k+g>cont.

In fact, these are good tools vs. andybody who likes to play keepaway, especially wolf and nessa players who are too scared to fight inside with you. Although you have to be careful vs. nessa, cuz a good nessa player will eat your lunch if you try to rush her down in defensive stance.

 

Yeah, DM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif sounds great if you can get it to hit. I mean, you can mix things up afterwards with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, a throw, etc. If not sure how much advantage you have afterwards. It might be a good opportunity to set up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif as well after it hits.

Unfortunately, I never really use this because I'm afraid of the disadvantage on guard. I'd rather take my chances with evading then using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. The former can lead to big damage combos and isn't throw counterable anymore in VF5 (very nice) and the latter can be nicely hitchecked after you get the hang of it. If I feel strongly that my opponent is going to low punch, I'll even throw out the low punch sabaki (or whatever it is) for the sheer fun factor. Ha ha! This is one of the most satisfying Brad moves to land for me.

I've been doing fine with this stategy, but am I really missing anything big by not using his DM attack? I can think of some nice setups with it, but I'd rather play a safer game.

I never really thought of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to get range. Seems pretty risky...

I don't think that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is that difficult to input once you get the hang of it. I use some tricks like using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and buffering the move during their recovery. That way I don't give away what I'm going to do with the crouch dash animation. For range, I'll use OM and then buffer the kick during the recovery of that movement. It's a nice trick every once in awhile.

As for his pressure game, I think that Brad is better at dealing damage in chunks with launchers than poking. He does have some nice tools for pressure though. I think that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a nice tool for instance. It's safe, plus you can mix things up with a throw or a mid afterwards. You should be able to fuzzy on guard. I don't know the exact frames but I think that you can fuzzy. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is a nice tool against evaders, etc.

 

lol ,This topic headline is quite offensive. What would the Virtua Fighter world be like without my main man Kage...
anyway good luck man.



gwah ha ha ha ha!

 

Brad's long ducking K+G is good launcher AND safe on block. If they think to block it, you can do the guardbreak. Or cancel LD into throw.

Brads turnaway kick(not sure about input) also has huge, deceptive range.

 

In a parallel universe where Kage was never created, Myke doesn't have as much of an interest in VF so he never decided to maintain VFDC.

Instead, Shang came along and ran the site. Because Kage doesn't exist and therefore never made him into the angry guy we know in this universe, he is one of the best, most polite Administrators that you'll ever run into. Also, Myke and Shang became best friends.

If only Kage were never in VF...

 

LOL! Awesome, haha /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
ALthough.... You DO know that wouldn't happen, right?
First, what company would miss on creating a ninja character in a fighting game (ok, don't answer that).
Second, if there was no Kage, Myke would pick someone else.
Third,... actually, I don't know on what terms Myke and Shange are/were in RL so I don't want to make any assumptions here.

Still a good laugh /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif