Kage stuff

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by uk-guy, Oct 21, 2001.

  1. uk-guy

    uk-guy Well-Known Member

    Well I've been getting battered using the ninja, but have found some stuff out in the process.

    b,f+K
    Knocks you out of your block but Kage recovers with his back turned against the opponent. You can get the TT P+G throw or TT d+K, DP and in some circustances you can turn around into stuff by holding down G or b to turn around quicker.

    f,b+K,K
    I generally do not use the canned second kick because there are better options. This kick is similar to the b,f+K but after the block stun you are facing the opponent so you can TFT or combo. Interestingly Kage cannot be sweeped at the start of the animation because he stands in a one legged stance. If someone tries to sweep you in this stance you get a loud swishing sound, I've used the f,b+K against low rising kicks to some success.

    b+K
    Can avoid low moves as explained before so can have it's uses, but not as good as some new attacks like Lau's awesome new punch attack that hits low jabs.

    d+P+K,K
    errr...it's the only move I know that beats Akiras d/f+P+K+G,P at the start of the round.

    b,b+K+G
    This slow move is worse than ever, but you do cause a keel over animation so you can hold G after to turn around quicker then do a DP or d/f+K+G...or even high stomp!

    P
    As fast as ever but the majority of punch counters have gone and low jabs have MUCH better priority. S not as good as its uses in VF3, but still one of his better assets.

    d/b+K
    This move misses often now for some reason, maybe the hit detection has changed...

    d+P
    Much better priority now. After a blocked elbow your low jab can stop a knee or shoulder from Jeff and Wolf now, but your standing jab can't, nuff said. The low jab is as powerful as ever for the likes of Jeffry and Wolf.

    Dodges
    Much improved if you time them. If you do a dodge in the execution phase of a move your character will shout out 'HAI!' and not only will the dodge moved in a greater axis, but it will also have less delay than a bog standard dodge. I call these MC dodges, but if any one can come up with a better nameI was watching Dai play against CPU Vanessa when the arcade was closing and here are a series of events that demonstrate the speed and evation properties of dodges.

    Vanessa does her PKK combo
    Jeffry does MC dodge into Knee
    Vanessa does MC knee
    Jeffry does MC dodge Splash Mountain

    Basically the whole above sequence was lightning quick with counter dodges everywhere. Hatim was explaining that it is possible to dodge every punch of a combo like PPPK, (think tech hits in Street Fighter 3), so experiment I suppose.

    Hatim also says you can throw escape as many throws as you can input in 10 frames, but I don't think you cab throw escape guard anymore, once again experiment.

    Lastly Dai has been playing a vicious Jeffry and the general concesus is that Jeffry is over-powered (you have to see him play basically), but we'll see if we can come up with some battle tactics I suppose before we start whining about super powerful characters in games.

    Once again sorry about the spelling, thanks to any players mentioned abve, and as always comments welcome.
     
  2. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Vanessa does her PKK combo
    Jeffry does MC dodge into Knee
    Vanessa does MC <dodge into> knee
    Jeffry does MC dodge Splash Mountain


    UK-guy, great post! You meant Vanessa does MC dodge --> knee above, right?
    "Major counter (MC) dodge" is as good a name as any.

    Basically, every character now has reversals IMO... as that's the way a MC dodge --> attack works. You must enter in the dodge command during the execution phase of your opponent's attack. This is great news-- I like it a lot.


    --
    "VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater
     
  3. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    f,b+K,K
    Interestingly Kage cannot be sweeped at the start of the animation because he stands in a one legged stance


    Cool. Nice to know the long startup animation has some purpose! I'll try using it against low risers too.

    d+P+K,K
    errr...it's the only move I know that beats Akiras d/f+P+K+G,P at the start of the round.


    On a similar not, Kage's df+P will beat any standing punch at the start of the round. Followup accordingly.

    d/b+K
    This move misses often now for some reason, maybe the hit detection has changed...


    Yep, this move has definitely changed. The range on it has been reduced since VF3, s you have to be quite close for it to connect if your opponent is just standing there, otherwise if they're advancing towards you it still works fine.

    Hatim also says you can throw escape as many throws as you can input in 10 frames, but I don't think you cab throw escape guard anymore, once again experiment.

    Just curious, where did the 10 frames come from? Anyway, it was previously reported here that you could enter 'super throw escapes' which basically meant cramming in as many command TEs as you could. One popular method was to do a quick Z-motion (like a psuedo dragon punch), that is: b, f, db, df, hitting P+G at each point and finally hitting neutral+P+G, release P. To me this is overkill, so I usually stick to two command escapes plus neutral-into-guard.

    And I'm pretty sure you can throw-escape-guard. Just practice by dodging and entering a couple of throw escapes, releasing P while holding G on the last escape. If you do it right, you won't get any throw whiff animations at the end of the dodge. And you heard me right, you can do it during a plain vanilla dodge.
     
  4. uk-guy

    uk-guy Well-Known Member

    With regards to 10 frames, in VF3 you had to input your options in the first 10 frames of a throw and skilled players could do triple throw escape (i.e. P, P+G, b,f+P+G). I don't know if this is still the case with VF4 because no frames info is around at the mo AFAIK. But I think it is still the case.

    On a side note I have tried multiple low throw escapes and they haven't worked so Jurys still out on the multiple throw escape system.
     
  5. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    On a side note I have tried multiple low throw escapes and they haven't worked so Jurys still out on the multiple throw escape system.

    AFAIK, you can't escape multiple low throws, only high ones.


    [​IMG]
     
  6. uk-guy

    uk-guy Well-Known Member

    Updated Kage stuff

    d+P+K
    Low moves, especially kicks beat this move, especially at the start of the round.

    b,b+K+G~G - DP or d/f+K+G or u/b+K+G
    As described before if you do b,b+K+G and hold down G you'll turn around quicker allowing for a ground hit. DP seems to be the most guaranteed, however I've never managed to get d+P+KK to connect.

    d/f+P - PPPb+K - DP
    Works on everyone near wall.

    d/f+P - PPK - u/b+K+G
    Works up to midweights near wall.

    d/f+P - P - PPb+PK - DP
    Lightweights near wall.

    d/f+P - P - f,b+KK - DP
    Is this a mistake? It is in the Kage combo list but looks impossible, perhaps it's a wall combo?

    u/f+K+G - d+P - DP
    This combo only really works up to midweights because the low jab lifts them into the air so they can't techroll the DP. Heavies can TR the DP because they stay grounded after the d+P, so stick to u/f+K+G - DP if you're not sure. If you have problems pulling off the DP (which can be the case on some joysticks) then u/f+K+G - d+K+G is an easy yet damaging alternative.

    f+K+G
    Apart from TFT combos this move seems to be next to useless.

    b+KKK
    Worth throwing into the mix because you can add ALOT of delay into the kicks if you fancy playing around., but be careful...the first b+K has sabaki properties but still isn't that useful because Kage ends back turned.

    TFT - u/b+K+G - u/b+K+G
    Wall combo that I finally managed to connect, you basically have to do the flipkick at the earliest possible moment after the air toss to allow time for the second flip kick to connect.

    f,b+K(K)
    This weird kick will cause any low move to inashi if timed right. If you have the reaction speed you can use it against moves like Lions b,d/f+P etc. It is even possible to inashi a low jab. After the inashi the opponent will be guard stunned. It's still a risky move and I find the best time to use it is against low rising kicks or recognisable low moves. As explained before the f,b+K will guard stun anyone guarding (duh!) and leaves Kage facing the opponent allowing for throw/ combo opportunities, and the canned K part will always connect after a block stun. If the opponent tries to interrupt the f,b+K (and b,f+K) and fails they'll be MCed allowing for possible juggles, however they'll be pushed quite far back so you'll have to do something like cd DP or d/f+K+G, because nothing else seems to connect.

    b,f+K
    Seems to have no low inashi possibilities but is quicker than the f,b+K. However after the block stun Kage is facing away from the opponent. You can hold down G after the b,f+K to turn around quickly for a possible throw/combo. If you don't want to turn around you can attempt the TT P+G which has a higher possibility of grabbing, or TT d+K - DP

    Shinsodan
    It is not possible to roll away with your back turned anymore :(

    d/b+K
    Has lost alot of range, you have to be right next to someone in order to trip them up. In open stance it's even worse because even if you are right next to someone your d/b+K could still whiff! So Kage gets no new throws, a few weird kicks, gay stance, toned down elbow, even slower b,b+K+G, less damaging TFT combos with reduced ringout capability AND they mess up this move!...sheesh.

    f+P+G
    It is possible to avoid the K part of DPK with some characters, for example if Akira tries to turnaround the DP will connect and the kick will miss. Not sure if this is always the case, but when playing Adams Akira my K was always missing! If you sidekick after the f+P+G you'll cause your opponent to stagger allowing for the possibility of back low/high throw or the opportunity to mess around with the opponent.

    b,d+P+G
    Something’s changed regarding this throw. You now run a higher risk of ringing yourself out with this throw then in VF3, where the opponent would nearly always drop out of the ring before you.

    Stance punch reversal
    Do not try this if you’re facing the ring edge or you'll ring yourself out. However if your back is to the ring edge then it's worth attempting to switch places, and good luck trying...

    Stance sweep - f,f,n,K
    The above sequence can go over an opponent’s downed body or hit a low rising kick if timed right.

    PPP
    If you try to backdash after PPP, if it is blocked or connects your opponent can 'suck' you into a throw. Also if Sarah tries to backflip out of her stance to get away you can 'suck' her into a throw. Basically there are some moves now that can be grabbed from RANGE, kinda like toe-kick splash mountain range or sorta like Zangief in SFII.

    d+P
    abuse the low jab, you'll be relying on it ALOT

    Lastly has anyone managed to escape a low back throw?

    As always comments welcome.
     
  7. uk-guy

    uk-guy Well-Known Member

    Messed about with the f,b+K inashi properties and have come to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort.

    I thought Kage had the upper hand after inashing a low move, how I was wrong!

    If the opponent has been inashed they can easily beat attack you before the rest of the f,b+K connects. For example against Wolf he can b,f+P+K you after the inashi!

    Basically stick to b,f+K because f,b+K(K) seems pants at the moment.

    UK-Guy
     

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