Kakutou Shinseiki 3 Updates

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Are you a troll Alucard? You've been ranting about Kage being overpowered and other characters nerfed since pre FT. In fact, that's pretty much all you do as of late. Deep down it just comes of as you wish Akira and Jacky were stronger then they are (since you were apparently fine with things in Evo?).

I love the logic to ignore what characters actually win tourneys and just look at the starting fields. If you have one Shun and 19 Kage's and the Shun wins - which character is overpowered? The Kages?

I can only imagine the ranting you would be making at this point if a Kage won or was in the finals (to bad!) but go ahead - keep pissing on the parade.

/KiwE

 

I wonder whos trolling here? What has Kage being overpowered got to do with what I have just said? Just because I disagree with the ppl who said that VF is 90% player, 8%char and 2% luck doesnt change my view about Kage.

Im still of the view that Kage > all, whether Jacky/Lau/Akira is still stronger than the rest of the field is another matter. I only wished Akira/Jacky was stronger (or Kage was weaker) cos Im of the view that they were weakened more than Kage was in FT. I must say that Im surprised that more Jackys made it to the finals than Kages though.

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I love the logic to ignore what characters actually win tourneys and just look at the starting fields. If you have one Shun and 19 Kage's and the Shun wins - which character is overpowered? The Kages?

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Lol, I specifically singled this part out cos I think its funny as hell. Who then do you think is the stronger char? Shun? Lets see, Laus have always been well represented in major tourneys, but AFAIK none of them has won one. Does this mean that Lau is weak? Lol... Winning a tourney requires luck, and Itabashi had luck on this day, not dissing him but he very nearly lost it in both the semis and finals. Koedo or King could have taken it easily, if they had more luck.

So to cut the story short, somebody said that VF is all about skills (up to 90%!!!) and char and luck = 10%, I disagreed and said that a char's strengths (therefore popularity) does play a part, and I dont think its about char loyalty either.

We dont have to agree on something as subjective as this, but I happen to have some time on my hands and I just felt like replying to the "char doesnt matter post".

 

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I wonder whos trolling here? What has Kage being overpowered got to do with what I have just said?

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Look at your previous post for the answer. A pure, once again, Kage rant where nobody cares.

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Ok you guys seem to think that popularity has got nothing to do with char strength but ask yourself - where was Kage in pre-evo VF4 tourneys? What about now? I dont know about you, but I would think that the fact that Kages are much better represented in tourneys now must have something to do with him being greatly improved in Evo/FT.

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Btw, doesn't this mean, with your logic, that Jacky is "greatly improved" in FT then due to his tournament representation being bigger then Kages? What about all the Aoi's that were in Heroism 2? Was that "proof" she's a better char then Lau?

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Who then do you think is the stronger char? Shun?

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Yeah and apparently Sega thought the same as they gave Itazan this big ass trophy and title. Write them a letter saying it should be spread amongst those who played the more popular chars.


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Lol... Winning a tourney requires luck, and Itabashi had luck on this day, not dissing him but he very nearly lost it in both the semis and finals. Koedo or King could have taken it easily, if they had more luck.

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So the people who had picked him towards the end (Dandy_J) have mad luck judgmentskills? Sign me up for a lotteryticket. What does it matter if Pai would have won instead since you would still be making the exact same ranting? Guess Itazan had mad luck winning Evok2k4 aswell right? His win ratio being greater then the others?

You want my short story? You have a problem explaining how so far in FT the tourney winners have been a Kage, a Wolf a Lion and now a fucking Shun as it doesn't fit well into your Kage rant. So you try to describe it to be 'luck' which is really pathetic instead of accepting that it's the player and not the character who makes the win. What fightinggame do you consider to be less 'lucky' then VF then so we have a reference point?

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but I happen to have some time on my hands and I just felt like replying to the "char doesnt matter post".

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Oh spare us. Just click on your own nick and see what you have been doing as of late.

Signing off and missing the 'ol Alucard who was a techfreak and not liking the new bitter one.

/KiwE

 

I'm like the scrubbiest person on this thread, but anyway, I think char loyalty and strength both matter, especially in a game like VF that has had a long life so far.

I'm thinking SF - where in CVS2, the Blankas, Bisons, Cammys and Sagats became rather popular when they became top tier. Well, I guess Sagat and Bison were always kind of mainstays, but I recall Blanka and Cammy sort of in the gutter.

But despite this, the most common foes I face are- the shotos, who in CVS2, are mid tier at best. The shotos just makes people all warm and fuzzy inside. Then there is Zangief- who always struggled in the tiers (save for sfa3 V-gief, who imho, I don't really think is Zangief), but remains one of the most popular characters to date. And because people love the shotos and freaks like Gief, they play the shyte out of these chars, to the point where some of them beat the top tiers with regularity. But I don't recall Gief winning too many tourneys. Oh, I take it that Itabashi also plays Zangief. Hehe. And when the shyte really counts, people pick a-bison, a-sak, cammy, blanka, sagat...

 

kiwe shut the fuck up and stop dragging shit out all the time

 

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alucard, i live in japan and there is definitely a lack of jeff players. there are a lot more wolfs than there used to be, but i hardly ever see any jeffs, vans or gohs. i was at nishi shinjuku sports (well it's club sega now) on the sunday night before ks3 and i was the only goh in there and i didnt see one jeff. i was there for a good 3 hours and it was packed.

there are generally a few sarahs, but if i ever beat one of them, they usually pull out their main jacky card and whip me. i hardly ever have the opposite happen to me (where i'll beat a lau player and he'll pull out his pai main and whip me). before you misinterpret my statement, im not saying jacky is better than sarah or that lau is better than pai. i'm just saying that in my experience, players seem to have one of the 4 as their main and use others as subs (especially against nubs like me).

ah, of course it'll depend on the night and the crowd, but you'll just generally see far more of the 4 most popular characters than any other character. sad but true. i still think this says more about popularity than about balance.

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I was at Nishi that night as well and there were Jeffs but later on it was mostly higher ranked players. Just a coincidence, but Sarah is my main. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif The only other card I have is Kage at shodan which is merely just for laughs. What's your ring name?

 

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No tiers but your TEARS. ;_;

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And you can't really use Japanese tournament results as the end-all most accurate results of who's the best either way. It's only 1 match, anything can happen. Japanese care more about just having a great tourney than finding the 'best' player. If they wanted to do that, they would have round robins and it'd last from now until VF5 comes out. They have tournaments all the damn time.

For example, Senningiri played poorly. If they had played best 2 of 3 I bet he would've won against Sin#. If Jin would've had a first to 15 DM against Chofu, I'd put my money on Jin by a longshot.

That being said, I think if Itabashi DMed everyone first to 10~15, he still would've won, because he's that fucking good. The Kages and Laus that got far, got far because they were good players. I was rooting for Chofu, but not STUPID or Otsunami, becuase Chofu is good, and Stupid/Otsunami are not as good.

Anyway, if you think Kage is that overpowered, then play him. Play him and fuck everybody up, and shut up about it.

 

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Look at your previous post for the answer. A pure, once again, Kage rant where nobody cares.


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Read much? It wasnt even a Kage rant, I just disagreed with the 90% player 10 char/luck thing somebody had brought up. Its your problem, not mine if you consider an opinion a rant .

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Btw, doesn't this mean, with your logic, that Jacky is "greatly improved" in FT then due to his tournament representation being bigger then Kages? What about all the Aoi's that were in Heroism 2? Was that "proof" she's a better char then Lau?


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Really, Im genuinely surprised that Jacky has been so dominant of late, but again that has got nothing to do with my original post.

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Yeah and apparently Sega thought the same as they gave Itazan this big ass trophy and title. Write them a letter saying it should be spread amongst those who played the more popular chars.


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Eh? I give full props to Itazan for taking this, and I dont know what all that spreading the fortune thing is all about.

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So the people who had picked him towards the end (Dandy_J) have mad luck judgmentskills? Sign me up for a lotteryticket. What does it matter if Pai would have won instead since you would still be making the exact same ranting? Guess Itazan had mad luck winning Evok2k4 aswell right? His win ratio being greater then the others?

You want my short story? You have a problem explaining how so far in FT the tourney winners have been a Kage, a Wolf a Lion and now a fucking Shun as it doesn't fit well into your Kage rant. So you try to describe it to be 'luck' which is really pathetic instead of accepting that it's the player and not the character who makes the win. What fightinggame do you consider to be less 'lucky' then VF then so we have a reference point?


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Well, no comments on this since many picked Homestay, Jin, etc too. Like I said, winning a tourney doesnt mean everything, anybody with form on the day would have taken it. Qualifiations are a different matter since we are dealing with averages here (many matches and qualification rounds). If it was only the player and chars dont matter, we'd see a lot more variety cos Im sure many people play the other chars too (and if they didnt, why not?).

No fighting game is better balanced than VF4 at this point, but it doesnt mean that theres no room for improvement. Im not going to elaborate since it'd mean going way o/t.


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Oh spare us. Just click on your own nick and see what you have been doing as of late.

Signing off and missing the 'ol Alucard who was a techfreak and not liking the new bitter one.


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Whats there to talk about anymore? VF4 is a 3+ yr old game if you havent realised that, most of the technical stuff have already been covered in previous discussions anyway. As for char in depth discussions, anyone with some time should be able to figure things out just by looking at frame stats, and maybe experimenting a little with some of the moves with potential special properties. More than 90% of the stuff posted on here is junk anyway, I was just replying to one of those silly useless posts that I see ever so often on here. Besides, I wasnt even posting in the technique or media forum, this is pretty much a general info thread and anyone can chip in their 2cents if they feel like it, no?

 

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No tiers but your TEARS. ;_;

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/versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And you can't really use Japanese tournament results as the end-all most accurate results of who's the best either way. It's only 1 match, anything can happen. Japanese care more about just having a great tourney than finding the 'best' player. If they wanted to do that, they would have round robins and it'd last from now until VF5 comes out. They have tournaments all the damn time.

For example, Senningiri played poorly. If they had played best 2 of 3 I bet he would've won against Sin#. If Jin would've had a first to 15 DM against Chofu, I'd put my money on Jin by a longshot.

That being said, I think if Itabashi DMed everyone first to 10~15, he still would've won, because he's that fucking good. The Kages and Laus that got far, got far because they were good players. I was rooting for Chofu, but not STUPID or Otsunami, becuase Chofu is good, and Stupid/Otsunami are not as good.

Anyway, if you think Kage is that overpowered, then play him. Play him and fuck everybody up, and shut up about it.

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Well, we share the same view on this, I dont think tourney results mean much either, qualifications are a different thing though. When you have thousands of players all over the country playing thousands of elimination games, the element of chance has a reduced effect due to the law of averages. Ceteris paribus, what are the chances of 4 chars dominating the field if FT is indeed balanced? I'd say slim to none?

You say those chars are popular cos ppl are loyal to their chars, why then was Kage so unpopular (and almost non-existent in tourneys) in VF4B? I dont suppose you have an answer to that?

I wont argue with you that you can win with anyone if you are really good, but most ppl dont have infinity hrs to spend on this game, and its just easier to be good with a char like Jacky than say, Goh. It just takes less work.

I'd play Kage and even Brad (I played evo Brad lol) if my local scene wasnt "dead", I dont see the point in spending extra time on new chars when I have next to noone to play with.

 

here's the way i see it:

VF has a backbone structure as to how you play it..

but some characters already have useful tools to replace "common" system requirements. these are unique abilities which can replace an average situation. (for a quick example kage's uf+k+g can replace the common choice game for a low rising attack,--- pai's swallow kick can replace an elbow better because of it's hopping and canned abilities)

now if you take these abilities away, then you dont get a sucky character, you just get "backbone VF" --- which means the player has to use the common system alot more than the "convenient tools". when people are talking about tiers in the game, it shouldnt mean that the other characters are un-usable, but it's because they dont have as many improvised tools -- then the backbone play of VF takes more effort to learn.

so when people talk out of their ass about tournaments, it means experienced players can use the standard VF system very well -- and it really is a player specific thing, this doesnt determine the character strength, you can find that out by reading stat-wise logic.

BUT!!!

and a big smelly BUT!!...


--- Tiers of VF ARE existent due to the luxury of making the system easier to handle with replacement tools, and some of the replacement tools really do cover wide areas -- i.e kage's df+p at -0 a apposed to a linear jab or throw game.

i think too many people have come a conclusion that kage has the best tools in the game... so i think that will stick.

 

Yeah yeah, what BK___ said

 

Tiers and matchups do exist in VF. The game may be relatively balanced when you compare it with say, Marvel, yet too many players try to emphasize a "tierless" message as a means of promoting the game, which is not only untrue but also usually comes off as elitist.

 

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too many players try to emphasize a "tierless" message as a means of promoting the game, which is not only untrue but also usually comes off as elitist.

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*cough*ice-9*cough*

I agree, and it needs to go. Half of the problem is that VF4 Evo/FT is very balanced, and that seems to put the idea in people's heads that "very balanced" = "perfectly balanced".

The other half is that there has never been an official tier list done by Arcadia or any other source. They had the pamphlet thingies for SBO, but I they were really loose and mostly seemed to be based on popularity.

 

I blame the schools
*ends sarcasm*

it's not perfectly balanced, but I will say this, it's a fuck ton more balanced than Tekken, KOF, Capcom, etc. It's a fun game where the tiering of the game doesn't make NEAR IMPOSSIBLE matchups. Yea it maybe uphill, that's why it's tiered but it's still a great game, it's still what I will play and it's still not that big of an issue with anyone of the top 4, I would say that is more character loyalty. I would say that the top 4 are the top 4 has a huge following because they all have been in since VF1?
btw, w/e, this shit is pointlessnessatude x 12 and towards the KS3 end of this thread (lost pages ago /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif) Itabashi deserved that shit, if Chuie Tanchou had won (LAFF) I would have said he deserved it. Now we all know the secret to good VF being skipping school projects just to go to national tournaments (BRING IT EVO, I KNOW YOUR SECRAT NOW)

 

Hey guys, did anyone cap this stream? If so, when will it be up?

 

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Hey guys, did anyone cap this stream? If so, when will it be up?

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mms://mms.hk-ent.net/vf4ft/vf_live.wmv

Use FlashGet to download. I'm going to upload it to VFDC tonight.

 

That's what im talkin about! Too cool. Thanks man.

 

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too many players try to emphasize a "tierless" message as a means of promoting the game, which is not only untrue but also usually comes off as elitist.

*cough*ice-9*cough*

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LOL, that's true, but I do think a tierless message is better than a "Kage is king, everyone else is a dog" message that some people seem to prefer. The former is more accurate, and better PR. Of course, as many others have pointed out, by saying that VF is balanced doesn't mean that the game is perfectly balanced. No one is claiming that.

To anyone arguing about tiers...just go to Japan. And try to rank up. You will quickly realize that your problems are more about the opposing player's fundamental skill, style match-up, and character match-up than what character the opponent is using. As Jeffry, I hate playing against Lau or Pai. As Kage, I hate playing against Aoi or Sarah.

Maybe there are tiers at the highest level, but quite frankly, at our level, this talk of tiers is a moot point. Because ANY player reading this would lose a deathmatch to ANY copper *insert favorite low-tier character* from Tokyo. So until you get to that elite level, I would suggest thinking about improving your own skills than bitching about what tier your character belongs to.

Alucard, if you really think Jacky/Lau/Akira needs powering up...just go to Japan. If you really think Kage is all that, play him and kill us all. Hell, just PLAY more. There may not be much of a scene left in Singapore, but you have two Tsuwamonos, and a Zheng Zhi who's probably better than Tsuwamono. Show us how good Kage is.

 

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I was at Nishi that night as well and there were Jeffs but later on it was mostly higher ranked players. Just a coincidence, but Sarah is my main. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif The only other card I have is Kage at shodan which is merely just for laughs. What's your ring name?

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hey shou! man, i would kill to get some english advice from a good player like you.

i lost my old card (6 dan goh) and ive got a new one, but im not subscribed to vf.net so it's a no-name, no item. i'm still a puny 2 kyu with a below 50% win rate so you probably wouldn't want to play me (ijime). hehe.

when are you usually there and what's your card name? and were you at ks3 and if not, what's your excuse? /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif