KG (fake kick) to avoid some throw situations

Hi all.
Yesterday i was playing versus the CPU in the license challenge mode. I was doing the last challenge (50th) and versus Lau (the 8th opponent if i'm remember) i saw something interesting.

At the end of the round i tried to throw Lau after i blocked an "unsafe" move. I was expecting either he throw break me or did an attack though he was at disadvantage.
But none of this happen. In fact i saw him do an offensive move an hit me after that. While that i was doing my throw. I loose at this moment so i watched the replay to figure out what happen but the replay didn't really help me at the beginning.

No way to replay the match . So i hit the training mode.
My first guess was maybe offensive move have unthrowable properties. But it was not the case.

I was looking the tutorial of Ex Mr Dandy J today and something make me realise what really happen.

I think Lau did a Kick follow by guard to do a fake kick. Doing that made him unthrowable and just after he choose to do an evade + offensive move

During an attack (startup+Active frames) you are not throwable so with a good timing you can avoid throw with a fake move.

Tried in training mode and i can avoid a throw at -6 with Lau. Usually -6 means you have to break the throw or commit an attack.

Fake kick don't let you have the guard fast enough to block
At -6, i have time to block a 19 frame move but moves faster will hit Lau.

So ok this option look not so good if you don't have time to block fast move.
But the good thing with fake kick is even if you cannot block in time you at least don't get counter hit.
You don't give a free counter hit to your opponent if you guess wrong. No blue flash counter hit with my several test. Only a normal hit.

You can avoid a throw and try to throw your opponent just after ^^

Maybe someone can found a good reason to use fake kick to avoid a throw. Maybe to avoid some catch throw (Lei Fei roll mixup)

 

Nice find Cnul. thanks for sharing.

 

good shit.

i'm not home to try this out yet, but.

how about K cancel evade? - would that work against faster attacks?

 

wohhhh nice idea BK__

That could totally explain why the CPU did that to me. I always forgot that evade can cancel some moves which are not usually cancellable like backdash

I cannot try for the moment since i go to a tournament now but if this shit work... "Woooohhh"

 

Looks like Myke is right. Tried in training mode. I can only block or evade at the same moment.
My setup is in a situation where i am at -7 with Lau. I can fake kick + avoid a throw attempt as soon as possible + block or evade a move from my opponent which has a startup of 20 frames.
Lau himself has a nice launcher with 20 frames of startup

I cannot block a move with a startup of 19 frames or less. So that means a fake kick has a whole duration of 12 frames in total (with my execution)

By the way i still think this tech can be very useful.

Delay slightly an attack when you expect someone to do an evade is a legit tech nowadays. And if i delay a fast attack my recor can avoid/block the attack

I have record 3 situations.
1st when i do the fake kick into evade.
2nd when i do a raw evade (no fake attack).
3rd when i do an attack

After i played randomly those 3 record and with Lau too (Lau vs Lau) i delay my attack. My attack was

Most of the time with a delay attack :
i catch the evade of the 2nd record (the raw evade after -7)
i get counter hit by the 3rd record (the raw )
I miss the 1st record (the fake attack into evade)

Because it's play randomly i think my test is a little fair ^^

Now when i don't delay my
I miss the raw evade 2nd record (Normal)
I counter hit the 3rd record now (raw attack)
I normal hit the first record (fake kick tech)

Conclusion with this tech i can avoid someone who risk a big launcher (20 frames or slower) if he think i will try to attack to avoid his throw mixup, i don't take the risk to give my opponent a free counter which can lead to bad situation for me ( from Lau stagger on counter)

And also if my opponent don't figure out what i'm a doing (like me when i fought the CPU), you can became more hard to read

 

hmm, definatley remember doing it in VF4

 

Was looking the 2012 Tokyo Bay Area Cup - Vol. 5 today and figure out a player use it.

Take a look at the Eileen player after her 9P on block (when she jump)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23525718/highlight/272961

 

Ok, this topic is confusing me.

Could someone break this down into newb-ish terms for me? How is KG a "throw escape"?

 

In VF, attacks beats throws, even if the throw is faster to connect then the attack.

cancel means you hit the button, initiating an attack which means you can't be thrown, then cancel the attack with the button.

 

Oh that's neat, but what is the advantage of this? How is this any better than ducking or a normal throw escape?

 

There is some situation where you cannot duck because ducking take time. It's not instant. Your character take 7 frames to crouch. A throw has 10 frames of startup. If you are at -4, you will not be crouch in time to avoid the throw.

You can use dash crouch to avoid a throw but it works only until -5 situation.

So at -6, -7, -8 and -9 you cannot duck or dash crouch anymore

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Normal throw escape force you to choose a throw escape. You have 3 choice. Neutral, forward or back. so

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I will make a video if that can help you

 

No, I think I understand what you're saying. I'm just not seeing how or when that would be applicable.

For instance, if I do a highly punishable move (Sarah's 1K for example), clearly crouch and crouch dash won't be an option. Yet, neither would K(G). As before I'd have a chance to execute the K, I can be thrown.

So how would I go about using K(G) effectively?

 

Cnul is exactly explaining when its applicable here.

So it applicable when you're at -5 up to -9 when a throw is not guaranteed but cannot be ducked. If the opponent tries to throw you can only put in one stored throw escape.

You play Sarah right? Lets say you lead out a and its blocked leaving you at -6. If the opponent tries to throw you right after it will succeed if you guard even if you try to duck beacause you can't crouch in time.

You can beat the throw attempt if you attack. But you risk getting counterhit if you attack out of disadvantage.

Kick cancel guard will stop all normal throws and possible chance of blocking incoming attacks if you time your cancel right.

Crouch will avoid throws if you are -4 and under. -5 if you crouch dash.

Sarah's (Dragon Cannon) blocked is -15. You will be hit by all moves 15 frames or less if the opponent attacks at fastest recovery.

Throws are guaranteed also since they are 10 frames. While in recovery from you blocked DC you can store one throw escape input.

You can use kick cancel for defensive purposes.(-9 & under)

You can also use it for offensive purposes. If a person evades a kick cancel you will have a great advantage as they will be committed to stay at a successful evade state (23 frames).

 

Shag you just gave me a whole set of reasons for why I should use K G cancel to deal with throwing opponents that are great a mixing up directions. Against grapplers this is invaluable because you just really can't always rely on the throw escape direction you guess being correct. K(G) is my new forbidden technique.

 

Hmmm....interesting.

Thanks for the tips. I guess I'm gonna spend some time in the lab trying to apply all of this.