KK as a punisher

I frequently use DS after I have evaded something for the sole reason that I am quite lazy.
In dojo I have found a little something that makes this punish more interesting.

With your left foot forward (starting position) evade an attack to your right, punish with . Opponent is back turned.
is guaranteed for a total of 71 damage and +7 frame advantage.
I assume the advantage is higher than 7 if you count the frames needed to turn away, and I don't remember how many frames that is.
19 frames ++ seems "fast" enough to hit them side turned...

With your right foot forward it works the same way, just evade to your left instead to cause a BackTurned situation.

It was tested with the record command, so it should work the same way in a real match, but I did not try it against a player yet.

 

I tested it against someone and checked the replay to see their input. This works 100%, in case anyone was interested.

I guess the silence is more because it doesn't seem very useful. (Or because it's old news?)
Against Taka with 3P+K,2P+K,6PKK I can get 74dmg, 83 with the ground kick and then the wakeup situation that people either like or dislike.

With KK,PK there is less guaranteed damage but a side turned situation, which might or might not be worth the loss of guaranteed damage.

It's also a mid attack and 1 frame faster...

At my skill level I can't tell if the KK, PK combo is worth using but at least it's all here if anyone thinks that the combo + sideturned situation is worth anything.

 

Nice find buddy! ill be on the lookout for that set-up when i fight you again!

 

Very helpful actually, Might start using KK twice in a row to see if I can get back turned, with PK being garanteed, does a throw also work? Also I think with some players that have evasive properties or reversals from backturn (Aoi for example) Would it still work?

Might test some of this out as well this is quite interesting actually

 

Throw attempts are not guaranteed because they are sent too far away. The "best" you can get is a side throw, which is rather worthless but might work once or twice. With a slight delay, throw/mid mixup should be viable, but then you can also do that after the PK.

 

Not 100% guaranteed after all.
If they crouch, high attacks will whiff because they crouch faster than they turn around.
It's a 50/50 that can lead into another 50/50 for not that much reward. It's pretty lame.

 

OK, couldn't find a better thread for this so i'm dumping it here. After all, DS k,k *IS* useful as a punisher.

DS High Punishers

10 f: Throws 0-70 dmg and Variable results. Escapable.
or df+p 12 dmg and +4. Short Reach.
12 f: p,k 32 dmg and +4. Hold Fwd for better reach.
16 f: k,k 41 dmg and Sideturn +5.
or f,f+k+g 31 dmg and Wall Splat. Down otherwise; short reach; requires buffering.
or df+k 28 dmg and Wall Stagger. +0 otherwise; long reach.
17 f: df+p+k 25 dmg and Head Crumple combo. Short Reach.
19 f: f+pkg 30 dmg and Stagger. Better reach than df+p+k; switches to OS.
22 f: f,f+k 27 dmg and Down. Longest Reach; requires buffering.
24 f: f+k+g 27 dmg and Slam combo. VS somersaults without pushback (e.g. Kage)
26 f: uf+k+g 35 fdmg and Down. VS Jacky's somersault.

DS Low Punishers

10 f: Low Throws 0-60 dmg and Variable results. Short Reach.
12 f: d+p 11 dmg and +4. Short Reach.
13 f: WS p 22 dmg and +1. Short Reach.
16 f: k,k 41 dmg and Sideturn +5.
or f,f+k+g 31 dmg and Wall Splat. Down otherwise; short reach; requires buffering.
or df+k 28 dmg and Wall Stagger. +8 otherwise; long reach.
or f,f+p,p 40 dmg and Down. Requires buffering.
17 f: df+k+g!p+g 55 dmg and Oki. Hit throw may whiff at range.
19 f: f+pkg 30 dmg and Stagger. Better reach than df+k+g, switches to OS.
22 f: G+u+p 22 dmg and Stomach Crumple combo. For sweeps.
24 f: f+k+g 27 dmg and Slam combo. For very unsafe sweeps?

OS High Punishers

10 f: Throws 0-70 dmg and Variable results. Escapable.
12 f: p,k 32 dmg and +4. Hold Fwd for better reach.
or p,p,f+p,p 51 dmg and -2. Taka only. Last hit can be replaced by k for some extra damage.
or p,p,k after an evade since it combos from the side (Total Damage?).
14 f: f+p+k 25 dmg and Slam combo.
15 f: f,f+p 28 dmg and Wall Stagger. +2 otherwise.
or k,p,p 55 dmg and Down. f,f+p guaranteed vs Taka (Total Damage?).
16 f: f+k,k,p,p 64 dmg and Down. f,f+p guaranteed vs Taka (Total Damage?).
or p+k,k 43 dmg and Low Wall Splat. At least f,f+k,p guaranteed (Total damage?).
17 f: uf+k+g 32 dmg and Float combo.
or df+k+g!p+g 60 dmg and Oki. Switches positions; short reach.
18 f: f,f+k+g 31 dmg and Wall Splat. Down otherwise.
19 f: b,df+p+k!p+g 63 dmg and Oki. Better reach than uf+k+g or df+k+g.
or f+pkg 30 dmg and Stagger. Switches to DS.
21 f: f,f+p+g 15 dmg and Mount. vs somersault?
23 f: uf+p dmg and Float combo. vs somersault?

OS Low Punishers
12 f: d+p 11 dmg and +4 . Short Reach.
14 f: f+p,k 39 dmg and Down (-2 vs Taka). Short Reach.
15 f: f,f+p 28 dmg and Wall Stagger. +2 otherwise.
16 f: f+k,k,p,p 64 dmg and Down. Short reach; f,f+p guaranteed vs Taka (Total Damage?).
or p+k,k 43 dmg and Low Wall Splat. At least f,f+k,p guaranteed (Total damage?); Down otherwise.
or f,f+k,p 38 dmg and Float. Buffering required.
17 f: uf+k+g 32 dmg and Float combo. Might whiff, combos are worse that vs standing.
or df+k+g!p+g 60 dmg and Oki. Switches positions; short reach.
18 f: f,f+k+g 31 dmg and Wall Splat. Down otherwise.
19 f: b,df+p+k!p+g 63 dmg and Oki. Better reach than uf+k+g or df+k+g.
or f+pkg 30 dmg and Stagger. Switches to DS.
23 f: uf+p dmg and Float combo. vs somersault?

So as you can see the formatting is awful. Bfeck is working on the akira punishment and i'll be AFK for the next two weeks, so if vfdc collectively decides to adapt his formatting and a vanessa player decides to reformat all of this, by all means.

 

Nice topic erdaug, i wanted to do a video punishment with Van like johoseph did with Lau, but when i record it the wmp don t read the avi format from my avermedia (i m wondering why) i ll fix it and make this video... I wanted to do a vid too about combos after stagger... but it will take a lot of time for all these...