Korean Stepping in VF4

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by MrWhite, Dec 13, 2001.

  1. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    The lack of an E button in VF4 has made this art almost non-existent (compared to VF3 anyways). Crouch dashing is a must, yet incorporating dodging into a traditional K-stepping routine has become very difficult : the new engine forces you to use the joystick in a D or U position than return to neutral which obviously takes up more frame time than the old E button did. And I'm not talking about dodging, just remaining in constant movement just isnt possible anymore because of the joystick input requirements. I'm forced into a linear K-step with the occasional dodge as a counter attack, not as a machi setup or flowing system as it was in VF3.

    I have yet to see a decent K-step for the simple fact that its just not possible anymore to my knowledge (unless someone has figured how to 360 the joystick repeatedly and have an attack game incorporated /versus/images/icons/smile.gif). Has anyone had any success in the art (with Lion or Shun's 8 way step maybe? ) ??
     
  2. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Lotsa complaints about this, including my own. All I can say is I wish E were still there, but it's not. So we'll just have to live without serious K-stepping. It wasn't that hot anyway =)
     
  3. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Is there no hope?
    BTW, CreeD, your signature is pretty vulgar, heh.
     
  4. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    I did some reading about Korean Step very early in 1998, but I really didn't do a heck of a lot of Korean or whatever fancy stepping. Mostly what I've done, so far, is work to find ways of incorporating the different possibilities of dodging and crouch dashing. As BigCat and Hiro both say, “ maximize Lion's ability to get the hell out of the way, avoid moves with long recovery and concentrate on setting up [b/High Impact Big Damage[/b] hits and throw combos and sequences.â€Â
    Here's what I have so far:
    u,u = dodge in[to the screen]
    d,d = dodge out
    d/f,D/F = crouch dash [in] ...or... CD
    u/f+P+K+G = Lion's "in-slide" dodge
    u/b+P+K+G = Lion's "out-slide" dodge
    A lot of this has been documented by Jang of the midnight VF Club in Seoul and BigCat before, but let's get it all in one place
    * Lion's u/f+P+K+G is *always* towards the opponent's front leg first, then
    alternates sides. If you tap G, you will return to dodging towards the
    front leg if you do d/f+P+K+G again before the “dodge is half complete, ala VOOM. Is this sound(?) or am I mistaken. I will experiment some more and look forward to reading the expert opinion. I am like a Honda Civic compared to the AMG Hammer’s we have visiting here and in our local arcade.
    Lion's u/b+P+K+G is *always* "backwards", towards the side of Lion's front leg.
    * Lion's d/f+P+K+G can be cancelled into a u/b+P+K+G, b+P+K+G or d++P+K+G
    * ARM up or ARM down or u/f+P+K+G can be cancelled into a Crouch Dash
    * Crouch Dashes can also still be G-cancelled
    What I’ve been doing lately is f+P -> u/f+P+K+G -> u+K or d/f+P+K+G, with the dodge pushing Lion further in the direction of the first dodge. So, for example, if his
    opponent's front leg is closer to the front of the screen, u/f+P+K+G -> ARM back, up back
    would put you (almost) twice.
    Korean step, as it has been interpreted in North America (?), is repeated G-cancelled
    Crouch Dashes into dodges into G-cancelled crouch dashes. The net
    result is that you have a madly sidestepping character, who is also
    crouching half of the time. This makes little sense to me and my banana fingers.
    This is best left to the expert level player (imho).
    Now try this yourself and let us all know how it works for you. As Hyun has noted overseas VF game play is guarded and closed to us in the English speaking world for the most part this is very true of VF4.
     
  5. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    I did some reading about Korean Step very early in 1998, but I really didn't do a heck of a lot of Korean or whatever fancy stepping. Mostly what I've done, so far, is work to find ways of incorporating the different possibilities of dodging and crouch dashing. As BigCat and Hiro both say, “ maximize Lion's ability to get the hell out of the way, avoid moves with long recovery and concentrate on setting up High Impact Big Damage hits and throw combos and sequences.â€Â
    Here's what I have so far:
    u,u = dodge in[to the screen]
    d,d = dodge out
    d/f,D/F = crouch dash [in] ...or... CD
    u/f+P+K+G = Lion's "in-slide" dodge
    u/b+P+K+G = Lion's "out-slide" dodge
    A lot of this has been documented by Jang of the midnight VF Club in Seoul and BigCat before, but let's get it all in one place
    * Lion's u/f+P+K+G is *always* towards the opponent's front leg first, then
    alternates sides. If you tap G, you will return to dodging towards the
    front leg if you do d/f+P+K+G again before the “dodge is half complete, ala VOOM. Is this sound(?) or am I mistaken. I will experiment some more and look forward to reading the expert opinion. I am like a Honda Civic compared to the AMG Hammer’s we have visiting here and in our local arcade.
    Lion's u/b+P+K+G is *always* "backwards", towards the side of Lion's front leg.
    * Lion's d/f+P+K+G can be cancelled into a u/b+P+K+G, b+P+K+G or d++P+K+G
    * ARM up or ARM down or u/f+P+K+G can be cancelled into a Crouch Dash
    * Crouch Dashes can also still be G-cancelled
    What I’ve been doing lately is ARM -> f+P -> u/f+P+K+G -> u+K or d/f+P+K+G, with the dodge pushing Lion further in the direction of the first dodge. So, for example, if his
    opponent's front leg is closer to the front of the screen, u/f+P+K+G -> ARM back, up back
    would put you (almost) twice.
    Korean step, as it has been interpreted in North America (?), is repeated G-cancelled
    Crouch Dashes into dodges into G-cancelled crouch dashes. The net
    result is that you have a madly sidestepping character, who is also
    crouching half of the time. This makes little sense to me and my banana fingers.
    This is best left to the expert level player (imho).
    Now try this yourself and let us all know how it works for you. As Hyun has noted overseas VF game play is guarded and closed to us in the English speaking world for the most part this is very true of VF4.
     
  6. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Nice research Nycat. I have a rather similar routine when it comes to Kage (although he has limited movement compared to Lion).<font color=white> G-cancelled sweep [TA], dodge, back or crouch dash g-cancel -> insert attack sequence (usually setup a Body blow [FS,d/f+P] into P [G] (sometimes you can insert a 2nd g-cancelled punch/TA punch(?)) | Kickflip | d+P+K,K (which is guaranteed) | d+P+K, Dragon Punch |</font color=white>. When your flowing this feels almost like a canned combo. The whole thing is wired into the opponents normal reaction conditioning to make him whiff. One of the only times I feel I'm in K-step.

    Can anyone confirm <font color=white>Body Blow, P[G], d+P+K, knee, kickflip</font color=white>? Cant seem to pull the knee off... Would like to can that into a K-step.

    Side note [Kage Wall combos vs. light mids] (opp. has back to wall) -><font color=white> [TA] P+K, K, Dragon Punch, Heel Drop.</font color=white>
    Also -><font color=white>[TA] P+K,K, Circle-moon, Dragon punch</font color=white>...A kickflip seems possible at the end but I cant get the timing.
    Need follow ups to the sword hand cutting combo as its a great follow up to G-cancelled sweep (although slow).
     
  7. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    Yikes your Kage is scary. Total "No Mercy" Kage is also played here in NYC and in Boston.
    Tomorrow we will kata Vanessa and hopefully have <font color=white>Tetsujin</font color=white> Lei player stop by to demonstrate VF4 other new character.
     
  8. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Actually I'll be in New York for X-mas. From the 21st to the 26th. Read up on locations, guess I'll try Chinatown fair and Broadwaycity.com. Cant hang around too often cuz I'm spending most of my time with my ex and I wanna hide the "arcade nerd" side of me /versus/images/icons/smile.gif. I'm definetly looking forward to the competition, although ephemeral. Aint nothing better than getting your ass kicked by new york players on christmas /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif. I'll practice my K-stepping even more as it seems cut-throat down there. I'm from a small place Nycat, we're only 3 million in my city /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif.
     
  9. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Some corrections:

    You don't need to double tap dodges. u or d will do (as opposed to u,u or d,d).

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    * Lion's u/f+P+K+G is *always* towards the opponent's front leg first, then
    alternates sides. If you tap G, you will return to dodging towards the
    front leg if you do d/f+P+K+G again before the “dodge is half complete, ala VOOM. Is this sound(?) or am I mistaken. I will experiment some more and look forward to reading the expert opinion. I am like a Honda Civic compared to the AMG Hammer’s we have visiting here and in our local arcade.
    Lion's u/b+P+K+G is *always* "backwards", towards the side of Lion's front leg.

    <hr></blockquote>

    You're mixing up VF3 Lion Special Dodge mechanics with VF4. The way it works is this:
    uf+P+K+G goes into screen.
    df+P+K+G goes out of screen.

    The property you mentioned is VF3 only because there was only one input for Lion's slip-dodge or whatever it's called. It was uf+E and the rule was that the first one went towards the side of the opponent's front leg and if you did an immediate followup with another uf+E, then it would go the other way on the second one. In VF4, you have direct control of the slip-dodge. BTW, as far as I know, it requires a bit more precision to use well in VF4 than in VF3. In VF3, it was like the universal sway against linear attacks.

    Regarding the new input for ub+E, it's not ub+P+K+G, but b+P+K+G. And yes, it slides to Lion's backside.

    -Chanchai

    PS. Word of advice, and something everyone should keep in mind... VF4's a very different game than VF3 and Lion is definitely played differently on various levels than he used to be played. The overall strategy is similar, but implementation is drastically different. Keep in mind that a lot of VF3 "specifics" don't apply to VF4 and keep an eye for these changes.
    Generalized things from VF3 have their uses in the new engine, but watch out for specifics.
     
  10. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    And I'm not talking about dodging, just remaining in constant movement just isnt possible anymore because of the joystick input requirements. I'm forced into a linear K-step with the occasional dodge as a counter attack, not as a machi setup or flowing system as it was in VF3.

    You are able to remain in constant (or near constant) movement, even though it is linear. You can do more than one crouch dash, and as far as I know, you are able to cancel dashes by tapping the guard button. It gives you more precise control over your dashes.

    Why is it still so important to K-step instead of adapting to the present system? It's practically the same as it was in VF2, and movement is movement, linear or not. At least the way you use it (in a machi sort of way, as I understand).
     
  11. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    About my sig, yah I know. I didn't make those words up and hope they ended up meaning something =D

    No worries though, I'm only talking to Almaci.
    Maybe a londoner or two also.
     
  12. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    Why is it still so important to K-step instead of adapting to the present system? It's practically the same as it was in VF2, and movement is movement, linear or not.

    <hr></blockquote>

    Well put ghostdog. If I read one more post on k-stepping in VF4 I'm going to scream.
     
  13. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    So many questions... I appreciate your ideas. I went back to <a target="_blank" href=http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/virtua_fighter_2_lion.txt>http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/virtua_fighter_2_lion.txt</a> and Jonathan Tanaka's musings for VF2 Lion. I also went back to your achived Alan Tan ideas. Your library is now found through link of bun picture at Lion VF4 site. Andrew/CREWny wrote in a Jacky file here about an interesting step. I will try the variation Andy credits Shinz today too. search icon
     
  14. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Your both right, yet I was wondering if anyone had any success in a regular K-step routine on VF4...apparently not. So I have to resign myself to the new system. No problem, been done...still wondering about new elements that could deepen the game.
    side note (again): <font color=white>Body blow, P[G], down chop, hopkick/van-halen, kickflip</font color=white> works as a wall combo (on lights for sure anyway). I missed the knee and fluked it in! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     

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