language barrier, arrogance, and hurt egos :P

masa, i think i agree, generally -- it is true that no character should makeup for one's lack of ability.

but i will say that the good players who understand the game have a much easier time utilizing the right tools which a character has to offer.

for shun, i believe that his low K can go under mids. generally if you want to finish the round vs a heavyweight that must choose between a low or a mid very carefully, this takes character consideration and possibly an entirely different approach on the situation.

heel kick (u+K) makes the mixup difficult, because the proporties are alittle unclear to me. it seems to have practically no ground frames, and can avoid mids with a smaller hit window. mabye i have this one wrong, and you can tell me if i am.

i feel these are some tools which a high level player could make use off, instead of focusing that *average players has an easier ride with it*.

it can change prespective or game plan on an equally good player using a character that has a harder time--> generally because of the tools they have for themself.

i feel it was the same case for wolf vs pai in evo.

but eh, tough shit really.. i suppose it cant be an excuse for everything.

 

Re: language barrier, arrogance, and Shun Bashing

Oh man, this thread is getting spicy! 2K Goes under Mids, Check; 8K>God...Check. Like Kage's 3PP, is innocent :rollseyes: Did, did, did.....Did I just derailed the thread*Ninja Magic, POOF!*

 

Re: language barrier, arrogance, and Shun Bashing

Shun, like lei fei, brad and vanessa bend the rules of the standard game of VF and require specific character knowledge and strategy in order to win against. How many people here can say they know and effectively take advantage of all the areas where shun can be punished with guaranteed or at least a nitaku rotation? If anyone wants to record matchups where they lose to shun and don't know what to do, i'll be happy to offer by advice on what they could do to improve. I don't want to sound arrogant but I do want to help anyone that is willing to pay attention.

 

There are a lot of people that are really good in the same way, but they don't say how good they are, nor do they put down american players. You don't see Adam, Denkai, Konjou, JHow or Gentlemanthief saying the kind of shit you do.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, I'm just saying that you could use some humility. If you're good, that's great, but don't rub it in people's faces, or use that fact to try to make a point.

 

No... Your just in a different country /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Lag is going to be there regardless. Sega will not cut frames for better reaction time and speedier gameplay. Those are some of the step that certain 3-D games take to play better online. But for he sensitive types that play by frames this can be a problem.

I will not go on about this.You can create a good online experience if you spend time on coding also. I won't go on about this topic cause this is the wrong place for it.

Regarding whats Shinobi said about 2K gong under mids.Me and MasaRed was playing and i grab him into the Switchback Blow with jacky.After he Last himn before i could even mix him up he reacted with a 2K and won the round lol! You know i was pissed but i realized that hey its Shun so nothing suprises me. In "R' Jacky has one of these now but i doubt his has the speed if Shun though.

 

I'm just summarising what's been said in the thread, I have no problem with Shun. That's why I brought up, Kage's 3PP. Certian moves have priorities, that's the way things are. Sidestepping and Blocking are my friends....Just like Google. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Thank god there are no good players in europe /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/tired.gif

 

lol @ no good players in europe. I wonder how much of "japanese players are stronger" is reality and how much is myth. Maybe they are a little stronger, but... OK, usually they won't stay and play in ranked or player or whatever. In player they ringout, timeout, etc. But anytime a japanese player has stayed and played me, and find his strength to be equivalent of americans players. Most japanese i play in player i beat cause they are a little noobisher than (just like americans/europeons/ethiopians lol), a smaller amount i split vs (just like americans/europeans), and an even smaller amount consistantly hand me my ass (just like americans/europeans). Actually the strongest known contingent to me would be canadians, but i'm not gonna say canadians are stronger than americans/japanese. More to the point, when i play a 4,5,6,7,8,9 dan japanese player online they play like a 5,6,,7,8,9,10th dan american. So i don't deny japanese players are stronger, if more peeps there play and take it seriously it only stands to reason this would be the case. I'd sure as hell be stronger if everytime i turned on xbl the scrubs were weeded and i got nothing but great opponents. I do think how much better they are is over rated and some people like to really play it up as a bigger deal than it is. Especially, when almost all non japanese players wish the game was hugely popular and that there was more competition.

 

Word. I'm sure all of us would be stronger players if we had several Arcades on our doorstep & access to a huge amount of competition..

 

Generally, the average JP VF player is a bit more skilled. However, the ratio of HOLY SHIT THESE GUYS ARE AWESOME level players to average VF-playing joes is pretty low, maybe 1 in a couple hundred. Japanese VF also has its fair share of casual players, learners, and "scrubs."

Let's put it this way: If a fairly skilled US player went to a local arcade in a random Japanese city, they could probably hold their own. If they went to a high-level arcade like Club Sega Akihabara, they'd probably get trashed.

 

On one can imagine how hard that JP players work on VF5, and that's the reason why they are the best now. And don't forget the environment influence, how many arcades in Japan? I wish I could have the same condition in US or in Taiwan but it never come true...==

I'm surprised that I can play so many good player here and that's the most interesting thing~~

 

Yeah, I'm sure that shun's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gifK is one of the most annoying move to most vf players /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif It goes under mids in many situations, but not always. I just wanted to complain a little cause they sounded like I'm not that good and it's just that shun is way too strong /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I think I'm good just 'cause I've played vf series for many, many years!!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif are also what has been frustrating many vf players but they are extremely important for shun players to win /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I guess that the reason why some good players here use Shun as their sub would be to know about him more and to prepare to beat fucking shun players /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Didn't want to come off as all Shun players being good cause Shun is strong, cause that's not really the case in my opinion. A great player being in control of Shun, just makes it THAT much more difficult for their opponent.

When it comes down to it, when you and your opponent both know how to play VF, it's nothing but guessing games and strong choices. To me, VF shows how well it's balanced, when both players know how to play it AND/OR both players are around the same skill level and knowledge + understanding. Even the ugliest matchups become playable and winnable at that point. But that goes without saying, that certain trump cards(things like slippery moves) come into play that makes the guessing game alot easier/harder depending, or alot more conservative, for certain characters and matchups in VF5.

The example of Shun's 2K is a good one, because it goes under 6P and it already avoids throws, even punishing it on guard some 6P's whiff still. So 2K in itself avoids the safest most conservative mid/throw mixup in the game, that's something that opponents have to get used to. It's just like with Kage, how his holes are on picking the correct side to evade depending on his stance, alot of players can't even read stance anyway so that's a skill level trump card for Kage.

Some players hide behind how good Shun is in this one. Shit, I sometimes hide behind how terrible Sarah is this one, and use that as an excuse more than I should. It's just how it is. VF gets too personal, due to all the time people put into the game it's rediculous. That's part of why I just needed to stop, but I digress.

 

I have to confess that Shun is my biggest problem.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif
Especially MasaRed can realize that~ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

I see what you saying Social. Please forgive me on my last post my Keyboard is messed up. In Short you have your share of Weak Japanese players,Good Japanese players and Great Japanese players. Of course Yosuke,Itazan,Chibita Etc if im right are Great Japanese players and you are not going to beat them so easily becaue they have the basics mastered (In VF that mens Fuzzying,ETEG,TE ETC.) They Live in the land where VF is King with competition on the regular so they skill won't Wane over time do to a lack of interest (Thats me.) or lack of Competition.
IF you were put in the position where you need these to really survive in the US we all be nasty to a sense.You can just turn that shit on and off when you want to it has to be second natural to the point where its a reflex. I won't lie its not a reflex to me and thats why i can't get over the hill because i play a lot of people who a majority of the time were i don't need it.

 

oh my gosh what a funny thread!!!!!!!!! I was too late to be in the party!! shit!

Ladon wrote such good sentences. need to read.

slide!!!!
you write English very well,so that I can read very easily. nice sentences, man!!!

well,I think not only you have a point, but also Masa-san has a point, too. I am certainly sure that Shun is a middle-level-player killer. as Masa-san wrote, 2K, K+G,8K and other moves(2_3P,1P+K+G,1P,etc) are really annoying to the level of players. I indicate most americans are in this middle-level-player.

yeah, I agree with you that I also don't think that all Shun players are good. saying "shun players have more skills then the others" sound like strange because shun may be easy to use as much as Leifei compared to other strong characters such as eileen. as shun drink, he becomes the best character in VF5. that may be why. you guys have less chances to take away shun's drink than the chances for shun players to get some drinks. most of you know how to beat the opponent, but unfortunately, the ways of shun's combination to beat opponents work way better than the other character ones if you guys are the same typical americans' level.

"both know how to play VF." does not equal "" preparation for opponent's each characters." I assume the true problem is that you can NOT have enough practice of each character because of the size of the country and lack of the number of players. basically, you are ready to play Akira, Jacky, or Lau who have basic moves. this is what I felt as I play online with pai, aoi and lion.

 

Guys I'm coming into this thread a little late because it seems it has turned into more of a Shun topic now rather than the initial bashing of Fu_unji.

There is one thing on my mind that I wanted to share about Fu_unji that I do understand. My best friend of 15 years is Japanese and now lives back in Japan. I met him in high school when we were 16 years old back in 1993. He lived here until 1998. In many ways he is similar to Fu_unji and because of my relationship with my friend is why I understand Fu_unji.

One characteristic in some Japanese people I believe to be true comes from the fact of their society. Many of you know it is the most honor bound and "know your place" society in the world. When I say "know your place" I am talking about "Senpai" which means ones senior.

Here is where I'm going with this - although rare, when some Japanese people come to America the absolute difference of our country and the fact that they are now away from their predominate ways fortifies an outlet to their bottled up and subdued emotions and true personality.

People here of course have a right to feel offended but deep down Fu_unji doesn't mean to be offensive. Without a doubt he has a highly competitive nature, and that mixed with the language barrier can cause problems with people who do not know him. Especially when someone is now in a new environment which couldn't be more different than ones own country.

My friend I mentioned earlier was definitely thought of sometimes as an asshole but he truly is a great and wise person. He wasn't the most tactful person and it's unfortunate that unless you really knew him you might feel adverse. What added to the misinterpretation of his character was that he didn't care if someone thought he was an asshole, but he didn't try to make people feel that way, rather he knew himself, had high self esteem, and didn't care what people thought. Many of us are this way and some look at it as arrogance.

I have had Fu_unji over at my house once for a VF gathering and he was a very pleasant and friendly person. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Japanese person at someone's home. The things that I have always loved about Japan, the people, the culture, and of course the food, are always present in a Japanese person even when they're here. This is the respect factor which supersedes all behavior which I have the utmost appreciation for.

We all know that people can feel a little invincible behind a computer monitor. I think the main culprit here is competitiveness mixed with language barrier. A great point I could make is even after people tell Fu_unji to STFU and make fun of him and his skills, he doesn't respond with more flame. Rather he seems humble and understanding about his shortcomings. He completely digresses. This speaks volumes to me and is surprising at his age. This is something I don't think my Japanese friend would have been able to do.

The last thing I'll say about this is if anyone here met him in person, although you may want to punch him in the face at first, you would find that he is a nice person, interesting, funny, and someone who, like all of us, LOVES VF.

(Now let the bashing against me begin.) =)

 

Well, I understand the competetive nature completely and i'll be the first to tell you, I play virtua fighter to WIN but look at Yosuke, for example. Yosuke is VERY competetive and im sure many people here will agree, he is stronger than all the players outside japan that play virtua fighter 5 but he doesn't make statements like "most americans are weak". Instead, Yosuke has many freinds on here and is respected not only for his skill level, but the fact that he tries to help us improve our game by either playing us or giving us advice. I've talked to Fu_unji Oneal through PM and in japanese through Xbox live and judging by some of the things he said, I really don't think its a language barrier problem but rather an attitude problem.

As most of you already know, I am generally a friendly person. I welcome people i've never met over to my house to play virtua fighter and take them around to see diferent parts of the city and great places to eat. I understand the competition aspect but I also don't want to hang around or talk to anyone that is going to be telling me, my friends and I are weak.

If you see someone in a wheelchair or missing an arm, do you call them a cripple?
I'm sure if Fu_unji didnt say some of the things he did, he would have many more friends on here.

 

LA nailed it. Like I said earlier, I chatted with O'neal for months on XBOX LIVE. I'll repeat part of what I said. Sarcasm doesn't work if don't know the person. Two, there's truth in sarcasm. I told him, you have to be very cautious on how you use your words. There's a difference between thrash talking, and insults. And both, are VERY different.

 

He should just post in JP. Then people will hump his leg.