Latest VF5FS Tier Lists

Discussion in 'News' started by Myke, May 3, 2014.

By Myke on May 3, 2014 at 3:33 AM
  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    Last month saw the release of a new Arcadia mook titled "Fighting Game REMIX" in which a number of fighting game titles are covered, including Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown. In this edition, the cover the latest tier list for VF5FS.


    Tier List
    As of 2014-04-18

    SS: Akira
    S: Taka, Lion, Brad
    A: Jacky, Jean, Vanessa
    B: Goh, Shun, Wolf

    (Large Gap)

    C: Sarah, Kage, Lau
    D: El Blaze, Jeffry
    E: Aoi, Pai, Lei-Fei, Eileen

    After four years is the "Final Answer" here?!
    Four years has elapsed with this game. With such a long time and so much strategy evolving, could this be the final ranking (?)

    Points about some important characters
    There is a big gap between B and C rank. We will discuss some of the major points.

    One of Akira's main points is his jumping ascending [K]. It whiffs lows, starts combos and defeats sabaki, and is a full circular that defeats evade. It is particularly powerful during sideturned with +6 where it is guaranteed on evadeCD, and at +9 on sideturned is guaranteed on evade.

    For the characters in A rank compared to S rank there is not a large difference in their fighting abilities, but it is their basic abilities that attracts high praise. Amongst these is Taka, who was getting a lot of interest at the recent BT cup. While Taka can rely on throws and [4][P][+][K][P] against most characters, the opponent must concentrate on specific combos and untechable situations, focusing on the system side to fight Taka, so it is very difficult to have tactics against him. For people unfamiliar with Taka, he is more threatening than Akira.

    Amongst A rank Jacky stands out. The reason that he has fallen in rank is that his options to overcome a guarding opponent are finite. His returns on throws are not that high, and when his high damage throws ([6]and [4]) are broken it leaves him sideturned. Choosing the right move to throw out is quite difficult, so while he may look like a simple character to play, the value in really dedicating yourself to him is difficult. Of course, against an opponent who lacks defensive skills he is S rank.

    Amongst the lower ranks, Blaze and Sarah are well suited to tournaments, each with their attacking options from stances, and are fast so even against opponents adept at defence it can be tough. They are rarely used, and so they may be even more threatening than higher ranked characters if the opponent lacks match up experience. The other character who has ranked up is Jeffrey. His weight is high so damage inflicted is low, and his [P][+][K] and [1][K][+][G] one command moves are powerful.

    Thanks to Unicorn for the tip, and noodalls for the translation!

    Edit: Homestay Akira's Tier List
    Originally posted by Myke as a reply in this thread on Nov 23, 2016:

    So here is Homestay's tier list:

    S: Akira, Jacky
    A+: Goh, Lion, Taka
    A: Brad, Jean, Vanessa
    A-: Kage, Lau, Shun
    B: Aoi, Lei, Pai, Sarah
    C: Eileen, El Blaze, Jeffry, Wolf​

    The only additional information provided was:
    1. Lion and Goh can be S rank if the player is really good.
    2. Taka is not considered S rank because while he is strong against some characters, he is still weak against others.

    It sounded unlikely that we'll get a more fleshed-out explanation of why each character is where they are. If I do, I'll post it up, but don't hold your breath. Regardless of where your particular character lies on this, or the Arcadia, tier list I'm fairly certain there's a lot more work we can do to improve our own game.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    Tricky, SUGATA, Pai~Chun and 5 others like this.


Discussion in 'News' started by Myke, May 3, 2014.

    1. jimi Claymore
      jimi Claymore
      I assume Homestay doesn't believe in the "large gap" thing.

      Anyway thanks a lot to Kamaage and Homestay for the information. and thanks to Myke for the researching.
      Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
      Myke likes this.
    2. Unicorn
      I agree with Eileen being undedrvaluated...
      And then I see Brad/Jacky max damage on her and I feel reminded why the heck she is so low
      Tricky likes this.
    3. Jacko
      We look at Japanese tier lists, but I honestly think we as United States players would have a different tier list of our own. I think it would be akin to Third Strike where there's two national tier lists which is a reflection of the overall skill level between the two countries.
      Europe could probably have it's own tier list too.

      Like, for example...Homestay's tier list puts Wolf as bottom tier, but then you have a player like @Chief_Flash who could clean house and beat some of America's best players with Wolf and we're like "Oh man Wolf is so good" and think he's like B tier or something...then Flash plays Japan and he'll struggle because they have a way better understanding of how to exploit the character.

      Same goes for Jeffry, Players here will say Jeffry sucks and yadda yadda yadda...just because Japan says so, yet 3/4 of the country can't even beat him and exploit WHY he sucks.

      To be blunt, tiers only matter IN Japan. Everywhere else it's just "tears" because players like to cry about characters or why their character isn't stronger or why their opponent's character isn't weaker. Japan has a way better insight to conjure lists' proper because:

      A. They play more
      B. They have way more accessibility to the game via arcades (which is obviously offline and there's no mishaps with frames)
      C. They SHARE their findings with each other and help grow their player base. With this, knowledge spreads fast and pros/cons are constantly changing with characters.

      Everywhere else doesn't have those same benefits, unfortunately. We could do yearly gatherings or tournaments, but we don't have a proper means of consistent play to level up to the Japanese. Online is our only platform because our arcade scene is dead. Meet-ups? Sure, but how often are players WILLING to meet up? A daily basis of play (just walk into an arcade whenever) vs having accessibility to someone's home on a weekly/bi-weekly basis can make a HUGE difference in terms of skill growth.

      TL,DR version: Talking about tiers is fine, curiously wondering where characters stand is all well and good. However, like @Myke stated we should really focus on our OWN improvement because what we see that Japan thinks, is definitely NOT going to apply to the rest of the world. So please, don't let these lists deter you from playing a character YOU take a shine to. Cause trust me, if you're not in Japan 99.9% chance it won't even matter.
    4. Jason Elbow
      Jason Elbow
      Too true. But I noticed something. On all the tier lists, Lion in considered top tier. So I'm good either way! Yesss!!
    5. Jason Elbow
      Jason Elbow
      And what make Vanessa A ranked. I mean, I like her. But I don't think she's A ranked.
    6. Tricky
      To be fair, she was just moved up to this list a lot. Instead of being at the bottom of E she is at the top of C-rank and there is no large gap. She's closer to where I think she should be. She takes a lot of damage because it can be hard to land a hit on her.
    7. leftylizard
      As a Vanessa player who has been playing her since VF5fs release I can give you some reasons why she is A tier.

      1st. She dosen't have a matchup where she has trouble or is at a disadvantage. Only people that are in my opinion above her are Akira and Taka.

      2nd. She is a very safe character AND she has the most plus on block moves out of anyone.

      3rd. She has good moves that are useful in PRACTICAL situations. Her throws do above average damage(she even has a good catch throw in OS), She has good options to stop evades(DS kk second hit full circular ex.high, DS 3p+k half circular, OS k+g plus on block and +12 on counter hit full circular), and she has subakis in DS to play mind games with the opponent when they put her in nitaku(46p+k and 46kp).
    8. Myke
      Consider the following graph:

      Here we have four characters, A, B, C and D plotted according to their maximum potential or ranking. In our own reality though, especially for us outside of Japan, it's almost certain that we've not yet realised this maximum potential.

      So, for example, a player using character C may actually dominate their scene because they're relatively stronger / better than the players using the other characters (A, B and D), even though, according to the tier list, character C ranks the lowest:


      So which list can you impact the most? The answer should be obvious.
    9. NGKrush
      I think it's impossible for us to make our own tierlist though, for example: I have a local scene of 5 people. Even at the high point of VF in my region we had 8 people orso. Of those people not everyone is as dedicated as the next. We try to diversify our characters so we basically only have 1 of each character being "good" at that character. The Lion I play against who just casually plays twice a month will not be enough for me to judge the character on a tierlist compared to the rest of the cast.

      If I would have to make a tierlist, I have no idea where to place Jacky, Eileen or Shun, because I have no-one to play those characters, so my tierlist can basically only be the 5 characters that I play against/with (+ a few secundaries maybe.) Japan, with their large player base and the winner-stays arcade way of playing allows people to play against every character and get a good idea of if that character is good or not because they also play against people of all different skill levels and styles of play (One players Vanessa can be soooo different from another players, even if the skill levels are similar).

      I guess my point is, I do agree with the fact that the "outside Japan" tierlist would be different (you can even argue that everyones personal tierlist is totally different from anothers) but that only Japan has the ability to give a list that takes in as much information as possible to make a tierlist that could work globally.

      We'll never get to the Japan level of play, but we are always fighting to get there, so the final tierlist from the most advanced players will be very close to our own when we finally get there.
      Tricky, Myke and Jacko like this.
    10. Seminasuke
      Everyone in FS is dumb. Tiers shouldn't be a concern in America until Aoi and Eileen stops placing high in tournaments.
    11. kamaage
      Tierlist is just a general idea. All characters has similar basic attacks and throws. Its not like some 2D games where character 's power overcomes players skills. This game gives more space for players to beat opponents by skills.

      Also, as you know, reading is one of the biggest skills which affects how the game goes especially in big one match. Concentration and Confidence affects a lot too. So its really us who makes the difference.

      Having say that, this TierList is based on Homestay's knowledge. He knows almost all of each characters skills, frames and rough damage. So i am sure that we can have rough idea of where he or she is in tierlist.

      how about think this way.
      [you are in Evo2050 final. both players have to use at least 10 characters. you can ban 5 of your opponent characters and you can force 5 characters to play]
      who you ban? and who you force?

      me? i will ban TAKA for sure!
      ShaolinMonk, Unicorn, Myke and 6 others like this.
    12. G0d3L
      lol poor Taka, nobody loves him (except those cheaters that want free wins! )
    13. kungfusmurf
      Doesn't kamaage mean fried chicken in Japanese?
    14. EmpNovA
      Yakitori means fried/cooked chicken.

      Kamaage is some type of special tsukemen soup. Where you are dipping hot noodles into some type of dipping sauce or sauce plate. It's like a soup dish where you separate the broth from the noodles in two bowls and dip the noodles into the broth individually.
      jimi Claymore likes this.
    15. kungfusmurf
    16. ShaolinMonk
      I have been playing VF5: FS on live for 360 for a while now, and I find it odd that the tier lists place most of the technical characters (Lei-Fei, Pai, Eileen) at the very bottom, whilst placing the more simple, powerhouse character like Akira, Jean and Venessa at the top.

      This doesn't surprise me, however. Through playing live with many high ranking players with thousands of games and battle points under their belt, is that few actually integrate any notable defense into their play styles. The odd person will bock telegraphed moves or combos, but the main defensive strategy is the classic crouch and punch. This is extremely lazy and again, might score a shred of damage before leaving one open to a seasoned fighter player. I have a lot of Tekken and S.C. pedigree dating back to the PS1, and this 'duck and throw' defense strategy is a trademark sign of newbhood in the realm of Tekken. It's what they do when they are in trouble, but haven't really mastered the blocking reflex yet.

      Most VF5: FS players I've encountered run an almost pure offensive game. I use Lei-Fei exclusively in competitive play, and I do very well. Characters like Lei-Fei and Pai telegraph a lot of moves, there's a level of flair inherent in their disciplines, but when you manage to score hits, they are some of the most explosive characters. All of this is hinged upon a specific strategy. With a character like Lei-Fei, don't press the pace, at all. I lay back and explode at the proper times, with the proper moves. That's the key to these characters, basically every one that's in the lowest class, according to this list. And if you look at the Shaolin discipline, that's how it's used. It's not an aggressive discipline, it's designed to A) Intimidate with grand motions and loud kis. B) Stop aggressors. The foundation of Shoalin Kung Fu is BLOCKING, lol. Avoiding strikes and countering. Sometimes you've gotta know the discipline you're using, because they didn't do too bad of a job on the command lists, just had historically bad balancing processes, or didn't care.

      I just find a striking correlation between the play styles I've seen, and the ordering of this tier list.

      I also have to mention that any fighter with a 'tier list' is probably severely broken, like VF5: FS. A great fighter finds the *balance* between unique, niche characters, and universal play-ability. Also, even if there is a core handicap built into some characters in terms of certain moves (in almost every fighter), or move speed, when you have two skilled opponents who know both move sets, and how to block*, it doesn't matter. The main issue with VF is the clock. No good round can be settled in 60 seconds,, or someone made some epic mistakes.

      Having said all this, VF is a blast, it's a different kind of animal. I play VF for fun, not serious competition. The broken scaling, and typical player type has robbed any serious contender of that aspect.
      Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
    17. oneida
      all fighters have tier lists, few tier lists mean as little as VF tier lists.

      GustavoHeisenberg and Tricky like this.
    18. ShaolinMonk
      Been playing fighters since the 90s, never heard of a tier list until I downloaded Virtua Fighter 5, and no, no fighter I've played is nearly as imbalanced as VF is. Again, it depends on who is using who, but Anyone can beat anyone in Tekken, match-up statistics are simply variables to the fight each player must consider and adapt to. I fight Eddie differently with Steve than I do Kazuya, as an example.

      Virtua Fighter is at the bottom of the food chain. The only game I enjoy less is DOA.But coming free with Gold, it's worth a DL to have some fun and dismantle the odd VF kid in a raked match.

      Some communities may develop player-run tier lists, but games like Tekken and Soul Calibur objectively have none, their developers are the very best in the game, and know how to balance their characters. Every character in those games is equal, yet niche enough to stand out. There is almost no way to compare characters, unless it's from a place of total ignorance. For example, saying, "Kazuya's tornado kick is extremely effective, closes distance, and changes levels. This makes him SS Class'.... Yeah, no. It's just not that simple.

      EDIT: Yeah, the Japanese Tekken 5 Tier list is a joke. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Fighting games are about YOUR SKILL WITH -insert character-, not some universal rule of power scaling based who has a move that always evades, who has more block breaks, this is newbian logic at it's very, very best.
      Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
    19. Stl_Tim
      Disclaimer: Don’t feed the troll.
      GustavoHeisenberg and MadeManG74 like this.
    20. Cmoney
      Take the FANBOY-ISM to the ZAIBATSU Shaolin monk
      Last edited: Jul 15, 2018

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