Lau v.s. Jacky?

What are the best tactics for fighting against Jacky with Lau?

 

Some anti-jacky stuff -

Be careful poking at jacky with repeated df+PPP or FC,DF+PPPP. Jacky can autoinashi, which stuns you, then take a guaranteed throw. The good news is that once jacky is forced to block the first hit of a PPP-type combo, he must block the rest, he can't just let go of guard and reverse the 2nd or 3rd punch.
If jacky DOES get the reversal on you, you should use throw escapes. When jacky has a guaranteed throw you should break in both the and directions. This will work until jacky starts using attacks instead of throws... at which point you can try dodging and then entering some throw escapes (hard) or just guessing whether the jacky player will attack or throw (easy but eventually you'll guess wrong and take some damage).

If the jacky player is fond of elbow-backfist, you'll find you can't punish him easily if you block the backfist. You also cannot low punch him between the elbow and the backfist. However if you block the elbow and then duck under the backfist, you can then throw him. If the jacky starts getting good at recognizing this and escaping the throws, you can crouch, then let the stick go to neutral and press K for a heelkick. I think with good enough timing the heelkick cannot be avoided.
The same applies after jacky's beat knuckle, backfist combo (P+K,P). Duck the second hit, then throw or heelkick.

There are some other general anti-jacky strategies that work for anyone:
1. Jacky's f,f+K puntkick staggers you and the jacky player might try to force a fairly mean guessing game on you... he'll press f,f,f,f,f to dash in and then either cut loose with another puntkick or throw. Note that if you do nothing, the second puntkick or the throw will always nail you, so you need to shake out of the stagger and then react based on what you think Jacky will do. If he keeps dashing in until he's really close, he's probably going to throw. If you're really sure he's going to dash in and throw, you can do a df+P+K and wipe out half his life. If you're sure he's going to attack, you can dodge. Depending on how fast you shake out of staggers, a dodge attack will beat both jacky's attack or throw attempt (but you have to struggle and do it quickly, if you're slow the throw gets you before the dodge attack comes out).

If jacky lands his from crouch uppercut on you, you have a guessing game similar to lau's stumble throw game. If you do nothing and jacky elbows right away, the elbow misses. If you struggle and start to stand up, the elbow hits and jacky lands a free f+P,P,K. So you must guess whether to struggle or not. Depending on how good/bad you are at struggling, jacky might just get the f+P,P,K for free anyway, no matter how hard you try to avoid it.

It's rare for good jacky players to use these, but anytime jacky does a P-sweep or f+P,P,sweep or low kick-sweep... any combo that ends in a sweep... you can block, then just let the stick go to neutral and press kick for a guaranteed minor counter. You can also land a free f+P,P but if you're a little slow jacky will block and punish you.

If you block jacky's dodge attack, don't forget to take your guaranteed throw.
If you have good reflexes, a b,f+P combo is guaranteed. Try to counter with b,f+P -> d+P -> neutral+K. You can also theoretically land a guaranteed f+P,P but it's hard.

If you duck under one of the attacks that allows jacky to shuffle backwards away from you to safety - such as P+K,K or f+P,P,K ... you can throw right away before he gets away... or you can try df+K,P to hit him as he skips backwards.

If the jacky for some reason uses attacks you can duck under and then chooses NOT to skip away, you can really put the hurt on him him. For example if jacky does f+P,P,K it's possible to duck the kick, then immediately do (from crouch) df+P,df+P+K to knock him into the air, then follow with an easy df+PPPsweep combo. This is also theoretically possible after just ducking f+P,P... you'll need to practice it.

Good luck.

 

i'm also having a lot of trouble against jacky with Lau(more so than vanessa) are there any key things to look for in his combos so you can tell where he'll hit next? i can never block that low hit at the end of one combo cuz he sort of fakes you out, nevermind he's got others that hit mid and high! his legs keep me out of range most of the time too.

 

Have you done the trial training mode yet? The combo you're talking about is probably the one they use to teach you how to block high/low mixups. ... jab jab elbow backfist sweep.

Against jacky's canned combos, here's what you can do with lau:


[*]After

---Your best bet is to block high. Jacky has a bunch of different attacks he can use after his PP, but only one of them hits low. That would be jacky's P,P,d+K combo (jab jab low kick). If you eat the low kick, you can just low punch jacky before he recovers... basically he's giving up a free hit if he goes to the low kick.

If jacky goes to P,P,f+P (jab jab elbow) you can do 2 things -

1. watch for the backfist after the elbow... and immediately duck under it and punish with something like lau's FC, DF+P,P,P,P combo.

2. keep blocking and if jacky ends the combo with a sweep, block low and punish the sweep with lau's f+P,P.

If jacky goes to his PPP or PPu+P combo and you guarded it, jacky is disadvantaged. I think after guarding his PPP combo you can throw him, but he's safe after the PPu+P. If your opponent does these two combos a lot and you predict the third hit, you CAN duck under the third hit and ream jacky with something like a FC, DF+P,P+K combo... but that would mean ignoring my earlier suggestion (always stand and guard after jacky's P,P).

If jacky goes into his groin kick after PP (P,P,f+K) then you can block it and throw him.

If he goes into his spinning backfist you should immediately do a d+P to stop anything he might follow it up with.
Bottom line is this... if you guard high, you'll be fine against all of jacky's possible canned followups to , but if you guard low or try to attack, you might end up screwing yourself. Be careful the jacky player doesn't catch on to your habit of always blocking high ... he can get crazy with stuff like P,P --> throw.


[*]After elbow-backfist

Jacky's f+P,P can be followed with a sweep or a high spinkick. You should always duck after the elbow-backfist combo. If you duck early enough to avoid the backfist, you can punish jacky while he's still recovering. If you don't have good enough reactions to do that, you should still duck and guard. If jacky does the high spinkick you can punish with FC, DF+PPPP or a throw. If he does the sweep, you can block it and punish with elbow-palm (f+P,P).


[*]After a single P

Jacky has a couple of high P,K combos... a mid P-sidekick combo... and a low P-sweep. If you react to jacky's jabs with an immediate +... you should stop everything he tries except punch-sidekick. The punch sidekick is kind of a pain to deal with... but jacky can only do it when he's got his left (?) foot forward, and your average jacky player doesn't pay enough attention to stance to abuse it. If you block it, jacky is not punishable by anything guaranteed, but he's at a disadvantage.


[*]After a spinning backfist

Always duck after the spinning backfist, all of jacky's attacks afterwards hit high or low. If jacky does his high backfist into low backfist combo, he's pretty safe, so you might want to react to high backfists with an immediate d+P. It's better to get a weak hit than to settle for blocking the low backfist and have nothing guaranteed.


Hope that was helpful.

 

wow that was really a great break down of jacky's moves! thanks, but how about getting on the offensive side against jacky? i try to do his kcik started combo but it doesn't do much, also some of his elbows. the thing i really like to do is back dash away from his strike/kick then ++ him into a juggle, or do my stagger throw into a great juggle.

 

For offense, there are a few tricks that work pretty well for just about anyone...

P --> throw
d+P --> throw
f+P (either interrupts the opponent's attack or staggers them while they're crouching) --> throw -or- df+P+K combo.

Some really simple lau specific tricks --

-After PPP or df+PPP people expect lau's sweep. Use f+P,P instead to nail them when they crouch.

-After df+K,P people instinctively duck and low punch because the expect the palm. A trick that works really well is df+K,P --> b,b+P,d+PPP,d+K (that's the full turnaway upknife into turn-towards PPPsweep combo... let lau backdash a tiny bit while you're entering the b,b+P motion and he will automatically avoid the opponent's low punch and counterattack it with his b,b+P combo)

If you play someone who backdashes a lot and you're absolutely sure they'll backdash in a certain situation... use uf+K to catch them backing away. You get a free combo, follow with df+PPP,d+K.

If you block an attack that recovers slow like almost anyone's dodge attack... counter with b,f+P for a free combo. If you're not sure what the best combo is for certain stances or situations, you can just follow it up with u+P for easy damage.

After the FC, DF+P you can do different things depending on the situation.

If it hits and floats them, just follow with PPPK for an easy and damaging combo.

If it hits and doesn't float them, you can still follow with PPP for a small chunk of guaranteed damage.

If it doesn't hit, they can duck your PPP followups. Opponents who know that usually will either just crouch, or crouch and do a low punch. If they're fond of doing either of these, follow your upknife with the canned df+P+K superknife. You'll get at least a knockdown, and if they're floated high enough by the superknife... combo with df+PPP,d+K.

When you are in a situation and suspect the opponent will dodge or do something besides attack, try a hopkick (u+K). If it hits and knocks them down, follow with df+PPP,d+K. If it hits without knocking down, follow with an immediate b,f+P. Then use whatever b,f+P combo followup you're comfortable with.

Hope that helps. These tactics are pretty basic and advanced players will be able to predict them and punish you badly. One trick to tell how decent your opponent is: Use lots and lots of f+P,P. If they eat it over and over, you probably don't need to learn anything else /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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-After PPP or df+PPP people expect lau's sweep. Use f+P,P instead to nail them when they crouch.

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This'll only take you so far -- you'll find the harder your opponent, the less they duck and wait. If the or connect, you've got a nice frame advantage - if not, you'd better duck yerself b/c you're gonna get your own ass sweeped. Did it a few times last night myself.

 

but aren't you at such a frame disadvantage if those miss or are blocked that you dont even have time to duck? can't they just throw/strike you before you can even duck?

 

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GaijinPunch said:

If the or connect, you've got a nice frame advantage - if not, you'd better duck yerself b/c you're gonna get your own ass sweeped. Did it a few times last night myself.

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There's no frame advantage when , or hits, in fact, Lau is at -10 after the 3rd punch hits.

 

Hahaha, it was so much easier playing against your Lau after I found that out. Researched it after the first time I played against your improved Lau.

 

Oh come on... You mean you didn't know that before? /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Most characters' recover at -8 or worse anyway... why should Lau's be any different?

 

best not let him know abt lau's + follow up etc etc etc etc (open stance etc, close stance etc, up or down technicalities etc etc etc)

Damn ninja, my 9th sense tells me he's gone n done his research /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Nope! Mostly because no other character uses as much.

SummAh: What technicalities?? Share!

 

Woe be me~

I forgot!!!!! XD