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Lau's Sideturned Game

Discussion in 'Lau' started by Krye, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

    PSN:
    KryeMeARiver
    XBL:
    Krye NL
    To keep the activity going, I'm gonna share some stuff I found about Lau's sideturned game.

    Lau has some monstrous stuff he can do from sideturned, here are some examples:

    The first thing is that if you get 6p+k+g to hit on a sideguard (an easy way to get this is to input it right after you get a succesful evade and the opponent tries to guard) 3p+k becomes guaranteed!

    The second thing is that his kokei pressure from sideturned is pretty ridiculous. Like, really ridiculous.

    Easiest way to get that sideturned kokei pressure is by using qcb p+g, then following up with 6pp into kokei.

    From there you have +6, which makes almost all kokei moves uninterruptable. For the next mixup, tho, you only need two:

    kokei p+k gives you sidecrumple on any hit and is double handed, so only aoi can reverse it. Now, an uninterruptable move that gives sidecrumple on any hit is pretty sick on its own, but on sideguard, this move gives you +3. +3? Yes. +3. The only downside here is that on evade, this move is unsafe. At least -14. If this hits the sideturned game is over, but you get a ~100 damage combo, so no need for tears :)

    However, for people that like to evade, we have kokei k+g. Kokei k+g is an amazing pressure move here from the side, because every counter hit will turn into a sidecounter hit (blue flash).

    If you get a sidecounter, you're at +9. The safest thing here is to hitconfirm into the p followup which puts you into a +5 situation that I will talk about later. There's also a little shenanigan mixup here, though. Since you're putting the opp in a -9 sideturned situation, moves with up to 12 ex. are unblockable, meaning you can actually hit the opponent with BT pk back into kokei for the first mixup all over again. The opponent can, however, duck. They have to fuzzy, though, and do it pretty tight, because if they just hold down, you could mix up the bt p with bt p+k, which, like kokei p+k, sidecrumples on any hit. :) bt p+k is -3 on guard however :( . If the opponent fuzzies normally, this is not a mixup, though, that's why it's just shenanigans in the end.

    So, kokei k+g hits sideturned and you use the followup p. Now you have +5 and the opp is still sideturned.

    From here the mixup is not as easy, but still quite nasty.

    You can use 6p to prevent them from doing anything but guarding or evading. If 6p hits, hitconfirm into followup p into kokei to start this whole story from the beginning. 6p is only -1 on guard here, so I'm assuming there's some lame stuff we can find to use in this situation.

    If they guard, use guardbreak, it will give you a sideguardbreak which, like I wrote above, gives you 3p+k for free.

    If they evade, things get a bit more difficult. Here, I'm assuming the opponent knows how to ecdc, if they don't: use 4k+g. If they can, there's a couple of things you can do.

    First, k+g can't be ecdc'd in this situation. Neither can 6k+g, but it's unsafe on guard and also on crouch, so I wouldn't use that in this situation. So, k+g. This will turn the opponent to face you if hit them on evade (you also don't get a counterhit for some reason (in dojo), dont know why).

    +7 and you're in kokei.

    The other thing you can do, is mix up 46p+k and 66p+k, instead of using 6pp and k+g. If 46p+k hits a counter hit, you get 3p+k for free. If 66p+k hits, you'll be in a +5 bt situation, where you can use bt p+k for some nasty pressure that you can mix up with a throw.

    So back to the first mixup with kokei p+k and k+g. p+k can be beaten by evades and k+g can be beaten by a crouch (if k+g is crouched the followups aren't fast enough to prevent punishment). They also can 'beat' both by using guard. If they guard a lot, you can also not go into kokei and use guardbreak instead. You won't get a sideguardbreak, but 63 damage is nice and it'll be a nice mindfuck as well. If k+g is guarded, however...

    It's a backturned -2 situation. BUT! The opponent is not allowed to attack here. Why? If you manage to hit the followup p on CH, the opponent will be in a -11 sideturned situation, meaning 14 frame exe moves are guaranteed. Meaning you can do 6pp into kokei again, meaning the opponent is back to square one :)

    If you've taught the opponent they can't attack, they might evade, however, since you're at -2, any non-followup attack, such as bt2p, will catch them in their evade (no more sideturned tho). Lots of shenanigans you can do.

    It's a bit of chaotic post, sorry about that, but just check it out for yourself in dojo! Try to record Lau doing this stuff and see how powerful it is. It's not riskfree, but the risk/reward factor is definitely in our favor :)

    If anyone has some sideturned stuff to share, please do.
     
    KrsJin, IcKY99, Sozos and 3 others like this.
  2. ryanwalter

    ryanwalter Member

    and what do you do combo after sidetsrumple kokei p+k?
     
  3. Johoseph

    Johoseph Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Lau of America
    Do [4][6][K][+][G] > [6][6][K][+][G] > then [3][2][3][P][P][+][K] or my favorite, [3][3][P][P][K]

    Another combo i've been using lately out of sideturned kokei [P][+][K] crumple ...
    [4][6][K][+][G] > [6][P][+][K][P] > [3][P][P][K] Does more damage, worse oki than the above combo, not sure if works on all characters.
     
  4. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

    PSN:
    KryeMeARiver
    XBL:
    Krye NL
    I think the strongest combo is actually 4p+kp+k, 3kpp. Works up to jean, not on akira tho
     
  5. Johoseph

    Johoseph Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Lau of America
    Yummy. Gonna have to do that one. Can't get complacent with the combos I know :D
     
  6. SNAKE BOSS

    SNAKE BOSS Well-Known Member

    any garanteed jugles for combos
     
  7. Johoseph

    Johoseph Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Lau of America
    SNAKE BOSS I'm not really sure what you mean. Guaranteed juggles from sideturned situations? Or in general?

    Most of Lau's standard sideturning situations, nothing is guaranteed. There's plenty of juggles that you can get by guessing right when they are sideturned though.

    Also, feeling rather inspired by Beat Tribe Cup. Saw some crazy ass Lau shit, and I'm gonna test / post some of it all over the forum when I got time :)
     
  8. Johoseph

    Johoseph Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Lau of America
    K Here's the setup I was talking about near the wall. Saw it once during BT Cup, and while it's not something you could manage to setup often, it's still another trick to throw into the arsenal.

    The setup is having them pinned up against the wall, but sideturned. Usually accomplishable by a [4][K][+][G], or a well timed Offensive Move. From this point you need to keep them sideturned and get into Kokei. Which can be done any number of ways. [K][+][G] or [4][P][+][K][P]. Whichever way you go into it the mixup is Kokei [K][+][G] while they're sideturned.

    If they decide to step your gonna get a wallstagger. If they don't step and block it, they HAVE to respect your backturned game. If they DONT, you can finish the string, Kokei [K][+][G][K], if they push a button the low will wallsplat. If you think they'll duck you can just do [K][+][G][P] and get a wallstagger.

    If they duck the initial Kokei [K][+][G]... well... congratualations, you're playing a maniac. Anyway who ducks or goes abare against a Kokei'd Lau with their back to the wall is asking for death. If you think your opponent is one of these people just forget the Kokei [K][+][G] and do Kokei [P][+][K] :D

    Confusing again I know, I should really start making videos of these :)
     
  9. ryanwalter

    ryanwalter Member

  10. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

    PSN:
    KryeMeARiver
    XBL:
    Krye NL
    Nice video man! I especially enjoyed your oki setups using 9k after some throws! Gonna be looking into that :D
     
  11. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

    PSN:
    KryeMeARiver
    XBL:
    Krye NL
    Just wanted to note that the second hit of kk cannot be ducked on sideguard. It leads to a +5 side-turned situation afterwards.

    This is probably very handy when you're near a wall :)
     
  12. Cozby

    Cozby OMG Custom Title! W00T! Content Manager Sarah

    PSN:
    CozzyHendrixx
    XBL:
    Stn Cozby


    I was playing Joe and noticed how good [2][P][+][K] can be when used as meaty.

    I wanted to see what would happen if [2][P][+][K] hit meaty on a sideturned opponent. Turns out if it does hit meaty enough, Kokei [3][P] is guaranteed. As far as getting this position though. Lau has to use a combo that will cause a spinout, and it only works if the opponent techs inward to re-align themselves on the same axis they originally were.

    Also weird - from the Kokei [P][+][K] side crumple, for some reason after hitting [K][K] > [6][6][K][+][G] on the wall, the dummy kept going invincible. Literally nothing would hit afterwards, but I have no clue why.
     
    Johoseph likes this.
  13. G0d3L

    G0d3L Well-Known Member

    I knew this wierd stuff from several months (I have written about it in the italian forum) and was going to post about it after the Perfect Tech Roll frame analysis (done a few days ago).
    I did a bunch of tests and figured out how it works (at least for Kage but I think it's an universal thing).
    I'm going to open a new thread about this so after I've explained how it should work everybody could make their own tests with other charachters and then confirm/reject my theory.
     
  14. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

    PSN:
    KryeMeARiver
    XBL:
    Krye NL
    I don't know why I haven't realised this before, but Lau's sideturned game from normal stance is strong!

    When you have +7 or more from st, you have a santaku mixup (three choices).

    Choices are:

    3k: Beats abare and crouch. Loses to guard and evade. On st crouchhit you get +11=free 6pp into kokei mixups described above. On ch it's a sidecrumple for 90+ damage (46k+g, 66k+g, 33ppk).

    6p+k+g: Guardbreak. Gives +17=free 3p+k, free 46p or free 2_46p if you can buffer it. Against characters up to middleweight, the best option would be 2_46p since the opp can't crouch to lower the launch height, which means you get a free 80 damage combo. If you use 3p+k, while easier, the launch height can be reduced so the combo won't be as strong. I'm actually not even sure you can get more damage than from 46p reliably vs chars like jacky or akira (but don't take my word for it yet). Also: near the wall you can use 4k to get an easy wallcombo for half life :D

    k+g: beats evades and gives plus on guard. Loses to low abare and crouch. From +8 this will give a sidecounterhit for +13. Since this move goes into kokei, you will get a free kokei 3p launcher! Against most chars this will grant you 100+ damage! Risk Reward is totally in your favor here :)

    So basically, you can use k+g and 3k to force the opponent to use standing guard and then guardbreak the shit out of him. Typically you will find yourself in a situation to use this mixup after you succesfully evade a small poke. Things like a sidekick.

    I think if one gets this mixup into their system and uses it after evading, it's a really powerful tool to open an opponent up for some damage. Remember: as a Lau player, it's hard to get consistent damage from a standard nitaku situation. We have to go outside of the box to get it->this seems to be one such way :)

    If you evade something big like a launcher, punish using 46p, 4p+kp+k or 2_3pp+k.

    BONUS TIP: I was looking at this before since it was guaranteed in vanilla, but disregarded it as it didn't work in FS, BUT! p4pp is guaranteed on sideturned if the first hit is MC or mC. So it works as a small punisher in certain situations. Also the most reliable way to interrupt evaded strings (if you wanna take the risk).
     
  15. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

    PSN:
    KryeMeARiver
    XBL:
    Krye NL
    Related to the last post: kokei p is +8 on sidecounterhit, so now i understand why jp players prefer that instead of kokei p+k (safer)
     
    Chanchai likes this.
  16. cmase1989

    cmase1989 Well-Known Member

    "However, for people that like to evade, we have kokei k+g. Kokei k+g is an amazing pressure move here from the side, because every counter hit will turn into asidecounter hit (blue flash). "

    This doesn't seem strong to me. From the back throw setup your opponent can still just EDC and end up blocking the full circular. I'm wondering what other options lau has to beat your opponent from EDC in that situation. Im thinking maybe instead of going to kokei you can k+g from regular stance but I've yet to test if that beats EDC.

    A few other good side turn tools not noted. 6p,p. If the second part of the string counter hits a side turned opponent, kokei 3p launch is guaranteed.
    Kk is strong as well since the 2nd hit jails and you're plus on block(I think 3 or 5) with your opponent still side turned. It's also a fast half circular that will stop opponents from evading towards your front.
     
  17. KrsJin

    KrsJin Well-Known Member

    Wee bit late but learning his side turned stuff now. Do you mean like which strings become natural combo on side turned opponents? I'm asking mostly for myself. I saw recently that [P][4][P][P] is guaranteed on normal hit while the opponent is side turned. Not sure if there's anything more damaging than that yet (I need to test).
     

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