Lau's Version C Command List Errata

Discussion in 'General' started by Deniz, Apr 25, 2002.

  1. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    1. The hit level for b,b+PK+G should be M, not H.
    2. The damage for uf+K+G should be 32, not 30. It is also listed as not being reversible; it can be reversed as an MK attack.
    3. The damage for f+K+G is given as 30. For all other attacks with ranged damage, the list gives the maximum value of the range as the damage number. Since the range of damage for this attack is 30 ~ 35 (with more damage being done from far than from near), the listed damage, based on the current VFDC format, should be 35.
    4. The d+P back turned attack is hit level M*, not M.
    5. The Landing Sidekick and the df+K Side Kick are the only two of Lau's attacks that should become classified as SK.
     
  2. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Side note, both Lau's landing sidekick and regular sidekick string into the canned P,P after it (punch, spear palm), not just the regular sidekick
     
  3. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    The hit level for the Super Crescent f+K+G may need to be changed from H* to H, if H* means you can't guard high. Of course, if it means something else, then this isn't true. I know in the Kage errata thread, FeixaQ mentioned that this move had the property of being "special high," and referred to interrupting certain low moves and hitting opponents recovering after a low attack, so maybe it's just a case of my not understanding what H* means.
     
  4. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    f+K+G is H*.

    H* means that:
    1. The move will miss a crouching defender or non-defender that is not performing a move
    2. The move will hit an opponent that is in the midst of executing certain low attacks (most notably, d+P)
    3. The move will hit an opponent in the recovery phase of a low attack

    Let's take Vanessa and Lau for example. Vanessa's MT Lightning Elbow (f+P+K) executes in 14f, but is H*. Lau's sweep (d+K+G) recovers low at -17f when blocked.

    1. Lau crouches, doesn't do a move. Vanessa's f+P+K will miss
    2. Lau does d+P, Vanessa does f+P+K at the same time. f+P+K wins
    3. Lau does sweep, Vanessa blocks low, then does f+P+K. Since 14f ex is faster than -17f blocked recovery, f+P+K hits.
     
  5. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Heh. I was editing my post as you responded. Coincidence...
     
  6. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    FeixaQ: Will it hit someone in the recovery stage of a high/midlevel attack from which the attacker recovers low?
     
  7. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    High/mid level attack that recovers low?? What move does that?
     
  8. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    FeixaQ: IIRC, Kage's df+P Body Blow, for instance.
     
  9. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Oh, yeah, that's right. LOL. And I use Kage too. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

    Well, Kage's df+P recovers -6f when blocked, so you can't hit him out of the recovery phase with a H* move. (Nobody has an attack that comes out faster than 10f... throws not included.)

    Kage's df+P vs Vanessa's f+P+K, both executed at the same time, of course, results in Vanessa winning the exchange, but that's not a property of H*, it's just a property of faster execution.

    But, let's take Kage's DPK for example... the K component hits H, but recovers low at -32f when blocked. In this case, yes, Vanessa's H* f+P+K will hit Kage in the recovery phase.
     
  10. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Thanks FeixaQ.

    Myke: Do you have any interest in including information in the notes columns on those low attacks which recover high, or those high/midlevel attacks that recover low? This can have an obvious effect on throw counterability for instance.
     
  11. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Well, Kage's df+P recovers -6f when blocked, so you can't hit him out of the recovery phase with a H* move. (Nobody has an attack that comes out faster than 10f... throws not included.)

    If the d/f+P whiffs...boom! Vanessa's f+P+K will connect.
     
  12. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah. Forgot to mention that scenario. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  13. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    1. Lau's b+PK should have a note indicating the first b+P won't sober Shun [when the full combo is done].
    2. The Jumping Kick Off The Wall should have a note saying it guard staggers.
     
  14. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Concerning this business about special high attacks -- I can't find any information about them in the VF4 General Guide. Virtua Project also makes absolutely no mention of them in its description of hit levels. They use the symbol h* to refer to high force attacks, which I initially thought was what was intended by H* here at VFDC. This topic seems strangely insufficiently addressed. My main concern: Is there an adequate way to test if a move has this property?
     
  15. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    1. The hit level for b,b+PK+G should be M, not H.

    Corrected.

    2. The damage for uf+K+G should be 32, not 30. It is also listed as not being reversible; it can be reversed as an MK attack.

    Corrected. Blue Book has 30 pts, White Book has 32 pts.

    3. The damage for f+K+G is given as 30. For all other attacks with ranged damage, the list gives the maximum value of the range as the damage number. Since the range of damage for this attack is 30 ~ 35 (with more damage being done from far than from near), the listed damage, based on the current VFDC format, should be 35.

    For attacks listed with near and far versions, I'll be listing the associated near/far damage as well, and leaving the note that the damage varies with distance. I've done this with Lau's f+K+G.

    Also, the trend I've noticed with varying damage is that if the attack is linear, then the near version does the most damage, whereas for a circular attack, the far version does the most damage.

    4. The d+P back turned attack is hit level M*, not M.

    Corrected.

    5. The Landing Sidekick and the df+K Side Kick are the only two of Lau's attacks that should become classified as SK.

    Corrected. Also added note to "Continue with df+Kx sequence" (from Nutlog's post).

    ________

    Myke: Do you have any interest in including information in the notes columns on those low attacks which recover high, or those high/midlevel attacks that recover low? This can have an obvious effect on throw counterability for instance.

    Yep. Let me know which attacks undergo a state transition (standing to crouching, or vice versa) when recovered and I'll update accordingly.

    ________

    1. Lau's b+PK should have a note indicating the first b+P won't sober Shun [when the full combo is done].

    Note added.

    2. The Jumping Kick Off The Wall should have a note saying it guard staggers.

    Note added.

    ________

    Concerning this business about special high attacks -- I can't find any information about them in the VF4 General Guide. Virtua Project also makes absolutely no mention of them in its description of hit levels. They use the symbol h* to refer to high force attacks, which I initially thought was what was intended by H* here at VFDC. This topic seems strangely insufficiently addressed. My main concern: Is there an adequate way to test if a move has this property?

    I think FeixaQ has explained Special High attacks (denoted with H*) adequately enough. From that, you can perform a simple test of trying to d+P an opponent using a H* attack, during the attack's Hit phase. Ordinary H attacks can be MC'd with a d+P during the Hit (or any) phase, but you'll find that H* attacks cannot. H* attacks are only vulnerable to low attacks during execution and recovery.

    Attacks that cannot be guarded high will have a note to indicate so, rather than using yet another abbreviated term for the hit level.
     
  16. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    For attacks listed with near and far versions, I'll be listing the associated near/far damage as well, and leaving the note that the damage varies with distance. I've done this with Lau's f+K+G.

    May I make a simple recommendation? Instead of a note saying damage varies with distance, why not one saying damage increases with distance, or damage decreases with distance? I will of course gladly provide the information. I had stopped posting damage ranges for ranged attacks as "corrections," since I got the impression you weren't sure what to do with them, but I will now start posting them again. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    I think FeixaQ has explained Special High attacks (denoted with H*) adequately enough. From that, you can perform a simple test of trying to d+P an opponent using a H* attack, during the attack's Hit phase. Ordinary H attacks can be MC'd with a d+P during the Hit (or any) phase, but you'll find that H* attacks cannot. H* attacks are only vulnerable to low attacks during execution and recovery.

    I hope you and FeixaQ will be patient with me on this. There doesn't seem to be any other source of information about special high attacks (in English) that I can find (yet), so I am trying to make sure there is a clear explanation of what they are. I also want to be able to verify when a high attack is special high, as part of my checking for command list errata. So I need a test I can do with confidence. With this in mind, I am not sure how to apply your suggestion about trying to d+P an opponent during the high attack's hit phase. I can recognize the execution phase visually, but isn't the hit phase instantaneous (at least from a practical testing point of view)? For example, won't I be contacting Lau during his recovery phase if I try to d+P him after the f+K+G hits? And won't I be hitting him during the f+K+G's execution phase if I d+P Lau before the f+K+G hits? Again, please be patient with me as I try to learn and help others as well. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  17. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    May I make a simple recommendation? Instead of a note saying damage varies with distance, why not one saying damage increases with distance, or damage decreases with distance? I will of course gladly provide the information.

    Great suggestion. I'll update the notes once you provide the damage ranges.

    Re: testing Special High attacks

    It's almost impossible to visually distinguish the exe and hit phases of an attack, but what I was trying to get at is to set up a situation where both attacks will hit eachother simultaneously. If it's a normal High attack, then the Low attack will win, cleanly, every time. If it's a Special High attack, then the Low attack will lose every time.

    Lau's f+K+G executes in 15f, and his d+K just so happens to execute in 15f too. So have 1P Lau crouching, and 2P Lau doing f+K+G. The result: the f+K+G whiffs over the head of 1P Lau. Now have 1P Lau execute a D+K at the same time as 2P Lau's f+K+G. The result: the f+K+G cleanly hits 1P Lau. You'll find that it works against all low attacks.
     
  18. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Here is information on Lau's ranged damage attacks:

    Rather than repeat this constantly, for all of the ones I am about to discuss in this post, there should be a note saying damage increases with distance.

    The K+G Roundhouse is shown with 30 damage near, and 35 damage far. My testing shows the actual range of damage for the Roundhouse is 25~30.

    The d+K+G Sweep has a damage range of 20~30.

    The f+K+G Super Crescent has a damage range of 30~35.

    The KK Roundhouse, Crescent has a damage range of 20~30.

    Though not listed as such, the P|PP|PPP (hit) d+K+G Punch Sweep Combos are ranged damage attacks as well, with a range of 20~30.

    BTW, the far version of this combo has the wrong name entered. It merely says "Sweep."
     
  19. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Updated all the range dependent damages, their notes and a couple of typos.
     
  20. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Myke: The 20~30 range of damage for the KK Roundhouse, Crescent also applies to the version in which the second kick is delayed; this isn't reflected on the list.

    I also strongly recommend for the sake of clarity that in the command list legend you explain that for attacks with ranged damage, the damage printed in the Dmg column on the move list for the entry with lesser damage (either near or far) will always reflect the minimum damage of the range, and the damage for the other entry reflects the maximum. Also, that the note for "damage increases/decreases with distance" will only be included with one of the two entries, but that it applies to both.
     

Share This Page