Lei Fei and hit-throw followups.

I'm having trouble finding good 'hit->throw' situations with Lei Fei. Anyone have any pointers on this? I've seen the (IN stance: b+K, throw) and (df df+p, throw) options. Anyone have any other good 'stick and throw' setups or combos for him?

 

, -> throw

or + -> throw

+ -> throw

Bokutai stance -> throw

++, -> throw

or just plain -> throw

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll try a few of them out. Lei just seems so slow after Aoi's hit-throw setups. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

Lei Fei can't really do hit-throws that much cause his P is very different from the rest of the characters. His BEST hit and throw move is DM +. The move gives you big advantage on guard, normal and counter hit. When you score a counter it is a throw guaranteed situation. If your opponent blocks, you will have 7 frames advantage so you can easily two choice with a throw or mid attack. Also learn how to dance and cancel stances quickly and it will give you a lot more opportunities to throw. Just don't try and outpoke other characters. Lei simply cannot do that.

 

OMG you guys forgot the best attack/throw mixup Lei has!

+ -> throw

You can delay the 2nd so much that even on block this is effective. + allows you an opening to a huge number of great flowcharts. Be creative.

 

I'm not sure which move it is (sorry) but the one that always gets me is a kick from one of his stances. It is the first kick of a high, high, low combo and it gives a huge advantage even on blocking. sorry I can't be more specific, I just know that this is the one that always catches me out

 

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OMG you guys forgot the best attack/throw mixup Lei has!

+ -> throw


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I'm not sure which move it is (sorry) but the one that always gets me is a kick from one of his stances. It is the first kick of a high, high, low combo and it gives a huge advantage even on blocking. sorry I can't be more specific, I just know that this is the one that always catches me out


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Thank you for pointing those out, although the other people weren't neglecting them. I just mentioned them at the very start of the thread and was asking for alternatives, since the + and (IN stance) + are the two setups I currently use. The CPU has snagged me with those quite a few times. The IN stance one is the better (framewise) setup of the two by far, but getting set into IN stance close enough for the hit-throw can be quite a chore for me at times, especially against the all-evaluating CPU. It doesn't help that IN and DM are my weakest two stances.

The BBQ Chicken AI does a fairly good job of it, and I need to save off some replays of it so I can try to steal some of the patterns. That bastard always seems to end up in front of me in IN stance, and I know that kick is coming, but even if I'm blocking, he's at no disadvantage after that kick, and if I snooze even a little bit I'm nabbed. If 'BBQ Chicken' used any throw in addtion to ++ after the kick, it would be much more dangerous.

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Lei Fei can't really do hit-throws that much cause his P is very different from the rest of the characters.


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Yeah, his punch and the hindquarters of a 3 week dead rhinoceros have a lot in common....

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His BEST hit and throw move is DM +. The move gives you big advantage on guard, normal and counter hit. When you score a counter it is a throw guaranteed situation. If your opponent blocks, you will have 7 frames advantage so you can easily two choice with a throw or mid attack.


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I never thought of that. Damn. I use Bokutai much more than I use DM currently, and I've completely forgotten about DM + stunning for so long. Sigh.

"Does the mighty oak rise overnight? Your roots are strong, but only constantly reaching for the sky will you grow above the rest of the forest."

Yeah, but it sucks when the oaks are dumping acorns on you... 8p

 

hit-throw setup is definitely not the best imo. The move doesn't give you advantage on guard and if the 2nd is blocked you're in a throw guaranteed situation. It's not something you should do a lot in a match. Now if you add DM + to it then it's something different. The move becomes much safer but it does take practice.

Example:
DM +, (two choice with delay , or Throw)

DM + gives you +17 frames on counter hit so i would say it's the best move Lei Fei has going for him. Since the first P can be interrupted with a or any fast low attack it is not advisible to use that move in extreme close range.

Some other set-ups i forget to mention:

1. IN (opponent stuggles) -> Throw
2. +/+ (hit) twice to enter neutral stance for throw. Great for those who try to evade the sabaki attacks.
3. EV + (slow but give Lei advantage on guard) -> Throw
4. DM (Lei's fastest punch series with advantage on guard) -> throw or + two choice in IN stance. Remember that + is throw guaranteed though.

There's quite a few more but i can't remember them right now. Hope that helped.

 

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Kimble said:
hit-throw setup is definitely not the best imo. The move doesn't give you advantage on guard and if the 2nd is blocked you're in a throw guaranteed situation.

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Since + is a delayable string, it doesn't matter that the first hit is -6 on block, since the 2nd will interrupt anything they can do, and with great reward (60-70 dmg). It would be a HUGE risk for someone to try and immediately attack you after the 1st . Usually what happens is either 1. they freeze up and eat + -> throw, or 2. they block +, see the delay, and get MCed by your next attack. If they ever start attacking immediately after the 1st +, you can just finish the string and cash in on your 65 point float. Here are some good mixups:

+ -> throw
+(delay) -> combo
+ -> / -> mixup
+ -> +
+ -> DM + -> mixup
+ -> IN /++
+ -> ++ <-- these aren't that great,
+ -> ++ <---- but they work every once in awhile

 

+ -> / -> mixup
+ -> +
+ -> DM + -> mixup
+ -> IN /++

Lei Fei has been my main character for a long time and i don't see how these setups can be put into practice. If + puts you in large disadvantage on guard, why would you do / after that. The only thing you can do safely is either delay the or Throw. Anything else is just not fast enough.

It's not feasible to do + either. You can be countered by something as simple as a because you are at -6. It's impossible to go into stances without being punished after + is guarded too. Lei is super weak in the close range and doing that is just asking to be countered.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Try using it on someone. It will work. Like I said before, the -6 is made up for because + has a huge delay window. They will not attack right away because of the threat of the delayable 2nd hit. Watch any videos of Heruru playing, he does it all the time.

 

Are you trying to say that blocked followed by a stance change is a good tactic though?

Like i said, has only two good options and that's Throw or delay . There's not enough time for something like unless your opponent is very unfamiliar with Lei Fei and just decides to freeze. Heruru tends to CD to make his opponents whiff and counter attack with and that's much safer imo.

 

Why would throw be a good option if + is not? And was just offering some ideas for mixups - IN or ++ isn't the greatest after +. But everything else works great.

If someone freezes up long enough to eat a throw, then why wouldn't they freeze up long enough for or +? Plus, only doing throw/2nd is not the greatest mixup by itself. If they just crouch after blocking +, the throw will whiff and the 2nd will float so low that all you can get out of it is ++. Not to mention that if you delay it wrong they can just fuzzy. If you do / you can force additional mixups and keep advantage.

 

Well you just don't change stances in close range. That's a rule of playing lei fei. Unless you want to do the auto reversal in the IN stance or if your opponent is down or in the process of a TR.

I basically think is not a good two choice situation unless your opponent has weak defenses. It's not like a counter hit throw where you really have a two choice opportunity. I've played lots of 10th dan+ players in Hong Kong recently and from my experience it's not a very effective move anymore because people are starting to know lei fei more. They just don't freeze like they did before.

is not a good option imo because it is difficult to execute plus it takes around 15 frames for it to come out. A throw takes 8 frames so it gives less time for your opponent to respond. The second in comes out much faster than a . Now if you opponent crouches you can crouch stagger him and then really have a two choice situation. But on guard, it really doesn't work that well against advanced players.

 

I dunno I see all the good Lei players stance fake all the time in close range, and that's even riskier than just switching stance to attack.

And if they attempt to interrupt you, then they only have until the 2nd frame of + to do it, but they have until the 7th frame of the throw to attack.

But if it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you, diff strokes. Also you should try + -> ECD -> mixup.

 

I've watched quite a few vids and i've never seen good players change stances after is blocked. Heruru loves changing stances to pretend he is attacking. I do that a lot myself too. I usually dance and then cancel into attacks or throws. But that's because i'm in a safe distance/have frame advantage/opponent is down or TRing. Entering stances takes time. And that's why good players always tend to keep a distance. Lei is extremely weak in close range combat. But of course, nothing is absolute in this game.

Anyways, it was nice discussing this topic with you. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif