Lei Fei: Side roll recovery set-ups (Oten-Ukemi)

Discussion in 'Lei' started by AlexMD, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member

    This list is by no means comprehensive, there are too many set-ups to list in full, but I will try and mention a few of the more useful ones.

    All the side roll set-ups in the world are worthless if you don't give your opponent a reason to tech roll, I may list some good moves for keeping an opponent from playing dead in the future, but for now please keep this in mind.

    I will split this list into two categories:

    1. Moves that hit an opponent in the front (MEATIES: useful because they hit late in their active frames giving more frame adv)
    2. Moves that hit opponents in the side (SIDE HIT: often giving guaranteed combo's or side crumples)

    First a little on why certain moves are good to use on opponents in side roll recovery

    [3][P], Although in normal circumstances people often use [6][P] to enter Kyo Shiki, [3][P] has 4 active frames making it preferable in meaty situations since it gives more frame advantage.

    Hai Shiki [P][+][K], Although It's usually only +3 on hit and -6 on guard, in meaty situations you end up with +7 (nitaku) on hit and only -2 on guard. Also the incredible range make it usable after a lot of attacks that knock the opponent far away.

    Dokuritsu Shiki [2][K][+][G], It's 5 active frames make it possible to end up at +4 from the front and +7 on a side turned opponent. It's a good move to use once the opponent is conditioned to stand guard after a tech roll but should not be abused as sweeps always have the same (huge) recovery regardless of which active frame hits.

    [4][K], Solid option for the frame advantage it gives versus a crouching non defender.

    [4][6][6][P][+][K], Crumples side turned opponents on normal hit, nuff said.





    MEATIES (hit from the front)


    Hai Shiki [2][K]
    • [6][6][K]
    • [4][6][6][P][+][K]


    Nehan Shiki [2][K]
    • [3][P],[P][K][G]
    • [6][P][+][K]
    • [4][P][P]


    Kyo Shiki [K][K]
    • Bokutai [6][P]
    • Dokuritsu [2][K][+][G]
    • Hai Shiki [P],[P][+][K] (first hit whiffs)


    Kyo Shiki [2][K][K]
    • Hai Shiki [P][+][K]


    SIDE HIT SET-UPS (hit opponent in side)


    Koko Shiki [2][K][P][P] (and other spinning knockdowns)
    • [2][P][K][G],~[G] (for timing) [4][6][6][P][+][K] (side crumple)
    • [P] (for timing) [3][K] or [4][K] (+12)
    • Dokuritsu Shiki [2][K][+][G] (+7 on normal hit)
    • Hai Shiki [P][+][K]


    Nehan Shiki [2][K] (works only if they tech toward their feet)
    • [3][P],[P][K][G] [P][P][P] (not guaranteed if they crouch)
    • [3][K]. (causes stagger on side turned crouching opponent)


    Kyo Shiki [P][P][2][K] (combo ending in)
    • [3][K] (slight forward dash required}
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
    VFnumbers, Sozos, Chibitox and 2 others like this.
  2. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    I'm starting to learn Lei Fei a bit, this will be very usefull info, thanks a lot !

    also about
    Kyo Shiki [2][K][K]
    • Hai Shiki [P][+][K]
    I noticed this one in dojo the first day I tried Lei, it's pretty good, I noticed it will aslo OTG people who are not tech rolling which make it a nice Option select !
     
    AlexMD likes this.
  3. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member

    after Kyo [2][K][K] you can also do Dokuritsu [K][+][G]. If you do it slightly after they hit the ground it will hit grounded for good damage and act as a meaty (-5) if the opponent tech rolls.
     
  4. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    I tested the hai P+K meaty after Kyo 2KK in real matchs yesterday, and sometimes I didn't get the OTG hit, so I guess there are some conditions to it that I don't know of yet.


    About
    Nehan Shiki [2][K]
    • [3][P],[P][K][G]
    • [6][P][+][K]
    • [4][P][P]

    I had pretty good results with 66K after this too, it's pretty good since you have a good mixup on hit (ex doku P+K hit throw or low or throw). I tested this on Aoi, need to test on MW.
     
  5. Sozos

    Sozos Pai Sucksan Content Manager Pai

    PSN:
    VirtuaFIghter87
    XBL:
    pouuntooo
    here some interesting meaties I found
    [1][K][+][G] ch, [3][P]_[P][+][K][+][G][K][K]
    • [3][K] (in right timing connects on side and stagger).
    • [4][3][P]( in right timing connects on side +8, with possibility of Hai shiki [P][P][+][K] if they don't crouch).
    • [4][K] ( in right timing connects on side +12, guaranteed [P][6][P][P]).
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
    AlexMD likes this.
  6. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member

    Worth noting, launchers that cause a spinning knockdown are a good way to set-up side turned hits as well eg:

    Hai Shiki [K][+][G]

    • [P],[P][+][K], [K][+][G][P], Hai [P][+][K] (st hit)


    [8][K][+][G]

    • [K][+][G][P], Hai [P][+][K] (st hit)


    Also if you're trying to hit someone who likes to play dead, in some situations you can use
    [3][P] (relaunch),[P][K][G],[K][K],

    eg; Kyo [K][K], [3][P], [P][K][G], [K][K], It's hit confirmable so if they tech you end up with frame adv in Kyo stance. Need to find more situations where this can be used
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
    Sozos likes this.
  7. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Ok the OS I was talking about only works if you hit Kyo 2KK from the side(ex after a 6P from side)
     
  8. Cozby

    Cozby OMG Custom Title! W00T! Content Manager Sarah

    PSN:
    CozzyHendrixx
    XBL:
    Stn Cozby
    I think the opponent has to fall on their back from the Kyo 2KK to get Hai P+K otg. If they fall on their stomach, it probably doesn't work.

    This also could be character specific
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  9. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Meaties and OTGs after combos (tested on Jacky, more coming)

    Combos ending in bound --> 4PP:
    Immediate Hai P+K (tested on Jacky)
    Very Small dash 1K+G (need to check if it's a small dash or 1FK)
    Maybe 66K+G (need to confirm)

    Combos ending in bound K+GP:
    Medium charge Hai P+K
    Immediate Hai P+K hits OTG and is safe if opponent tech rolls.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
    AlexMD likes this.
  10. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    After Throw combo
    vs Vanessa (P, 46P, 3P P+K+G, KK) --> 4K (+8 on Hit) or 3P (+6 on block iirc) are meaties
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
    AlexMD likes this.
  11. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    After Throw Combo
    vs Midweights and lightweights
    Hai P P+K, K+G P --> 4K is meaty, (3P can't reach)

    vs Sarah and other light weights
    Hai P P+K, K+G P then Hai P (small delay) P+K Great near walls considering this attack has good pushback on hit
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2014
  12. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    After combo ending in kyo KK with no bounce (ex: 9K+G, P, 3P (Kyo), KK)
    You can do immediate Doku K+G as a meaty. (tested on Sarah)
    vs HW replace with one frame kill 4K (+8) or 3P or 66P+K.

    After Doku K+G hits
    Hai P+K is a meaty.

    After Hai 2K since Lei has good meaty options (66K, shoulder) opponent will be conditionned to block or stay on the ground. If he stays on the ground you can OTG him with 4K, P+KPP. Opponnent can tech between the 4k and the P+KPP but it's almost guaranteed to work at least the first time for good damage.


    I tried this a bit and could not get a timing to work for both scenarios. I either had to commit to doku K+G early to hit OTG or late so that it does not whiff on a TRing opponent.
    Are you sure this works ? which char did you try it on ?

    About Hai K+G I am the only one having problems comboing after this move ? the Hai P,+P+K followup will often miss for no reasons on a lot of char. I spent quite some time trying to figure out the reason but for now I have no clue when it works/ whiffs :s

    About 8K+G
    Am i the only one having various results on Jacky with 8K+G, K+GP combo, it seems to have an odd timing and will often whiff :/
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  13. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member

    "About Hai K+G I am the only one having problems comboing after this move ? the Hai P,+P+K followup will often miss for no reasons on a lot of char. I spent quite some time trying to figure out the reason but for now I have no clue when it works/ whiffs :s"

    Works consistently for me as a meaty due to the large number of active frames. I would guess you need to hit with the later active frames otherwise it misses.
     
  14. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member

    Kyo 2kk

    "I tried this a bit and could not get a timing to work for both scenarios. I either had to commit to doku K+G early to hit OTG or late so that it does not whiff on a TRing opponent.
    Are you sure this works ? which char did you try it on ?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeuWgpOl6t8&feature=youtu.be

    I recorded the CPU doing it, tech rolled the first time, stayed grounded the second time. It hit in both scenarios, though I think there are some other factors at play that make it hard to do consistently.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  15. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Thanks for the time spent checking this :)
    Ok I'll try it on Kage asap, iirc I was testing it on Vanessa, since she's lighter and thus falls slower it may explain why it was whiffing when done with the OTG timing. It might be a MW only OS.

    For Hai K+G, I don't get it. If used as a pure meaty it means no CH possible which means no combo right ?
    If used as a move on wakeup, I still don't get the combo if I do the Hai P,P+K asap afterwards. I tested it on Vane with no success. It works better on Wolf, although the combo stops at K+G. May be I also need to try this on MW.

    Another meaty found yesterday

    After 6k+G (CH)
    Doku 2/8 K+G depending on the opponent TR you end up either at +3 front or +6 side.
    from my experiment you have to do the 2/8 in the direction of their tech roll to hit from the side regardless of foot stance. Seems to work on all weight class du to Doku 2/8K+G's 5 active frames.

    You can also do dash Doku K+G as a mixup, timing is not too hard due to doku K+G's 4 active frames.

    I also updated the meaty options after 9K+G combo with the HW options in my previous post ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  16. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member

    "For Hai K+G, I don't get it. If used as a pure meaty it means no CH possible which means no combo right ?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwivEbCqm5c

    It's meaty in the sense that it hits with the last active frames but since it's a high it doesn't hit the opponent in the frames of wakeup where they are stuck in a crouch and would get hit by a mid if they did anything but guard. It hits them in the frames after they recover from the crouch if they executed an evade or an attack, causing a CH in these two situations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
  17. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Yeah I made a few more test and indeed found out that as a CH meaty the combo is possible. But if you do the move out of the blue you cannot combo which is super unusual in this game o_O

    What I did not know was that you can do an even better combo like you did on this vid.
    It will help a lot keeping people honest on wakeup especialy Aoi :)
     

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