Let's do an Aoi thread

GLC, thanks for the posts.

You're absolutely right on the stagger issue! What I actually meant to ask was not on stagger but on minor counter. What is the frame advantage/disadvantage when the opponent gets hit by a f+P or a f+P+K mC? Also, of related note, I meant "guaranteed throw <i>opportunity</i>" not merely a guaranteed throw. For example, in the case of the stagger, Aoi has the advantage and can choose to throw or not to throw and the defender is left to guess which that Aoi would choose.

As for the P,P,F+P,P, I'm really surprised to hear Aoi is supposed to be at a disadvantage if the F+P counters...whenever I counter the CPU the CPU can never block the last elbow and doesn't seem as if it could. Also, when I get hit by the F+P it seems next to impossible to block the last elbow. Think about it: if you get countered that means you're trying to do something. So you have to be able to recover and block after getting countered by the F+P in at most 23 frames (it's obviously a lot shorter since there is stun recovery involved).

As for the d/f+P+G follow up, I think Aoi is guaranteed a ground throw after one of her high kick reversals. The one where the opponent is on the ground, she raises one leg and chops at it.

ice-9

 

Yup, Aoi is in range for a throw after f+P,(P,G) or P,P,f+P,(P,G) staggers. I have no idea about mC frame stats, I had the formulae somewhere but lost them... for interrupts (MCs), it's f+P+K -3 frames; f+P -4 frames; P,P,f+P -5 frames. Check the Gamest movelists.

Yes, the throw is guaranteed after b+P+K reversing in open stance, against opponent's kick doing more than 30 damage At least that was the situation in OB, not sure about TB - so I didn't include it in my previous post.

 

Cool. On MCs Aoi should always follow through with the follow-up attack (on MC the opponent should float). I guess the reason AM2 put Aoi at a disadvantage is so that she can't get any easy combos.

ice-9

 

Don;t have much to add here. I like to play her like most people said poking/reverse/GC/throw character. She ain't gonna do much damage with her attacks. Though sometimes I try to reverse too much i.e. I should be throw eascaping or dodging. Or maybe that's my lack of skill.

One move I like to use that hasn't been mentioned much is her little d/b+k shin kick. Decent speed and recovery, most people don't see it coming. Great for stopping an incoming opponent or sweep. If it interrupts it will knock down, sometimes enough for you to tack on a PPPd+k.

 

Uhm, db+K doesn't knock down, even on MC. Plus it's throw-counterable when blocked, though the frame window is rather small. But, I don't doubt db+K's usefulness

 

It does knock down in some situations though (when the opponent is interrupted in a jumping attack?). I think there is a guaranteed throw opportunity if it MCs...that was the case in OB at least, not too sure about TB.

ice-9

 

I'm almost positive it knocks down in some situations...but I can't remember what at the moment. Because I know I floated the CPU and my bro with it then followed up with a simple PK more than once.

 

Oh come on, EVERY MOVE knocks down if it interrupts a jumping or hopping attack (or even just a jump/hop without an attack).

As for throw opportunity... sure, you're in range and you have a 2-frame advantage (= 2 frame window in TB), so if you're fast enough, go for it Aoi's db+K has the same properties as standard low kicks, you have to wait to buffer the throw, and if your opponent's faster, he'll throw you.

 

I'm pretty sure it knocks down in some situations, and gives a guaranteed throw in others - and invites severe punishment in the rest

I like it tho; much like her low dbl palm.

 

I've been told that d/b+k MC'ing punches and elbows sets up for the throw situation and that it will float when it MC's other moves. Or something akin to that. Perhaps if someone tested this to get a definitive answer?

-Jason

 

Maybe db+K floats when eg. it interrupts a move of certain damage? 30? I'm too lazy to test it... by the way, it doesn't really float, just knocks down - chop pretty much guaranteed, but it's easy to struggle out of jumping pounces.

 

I've connected F+P,P plenty of times after a d/b+K "float" though...I'll test it out soon, but I got to take care of my midterms first.

What am I doing posting here...

ice-9

 

A book I have says a good use for d/b+k is to block a low attack which is throw counterable (like low rising attack) against anyone but wolf, jeffry, or aoi; then when they try to throw escape Aoi's low throw, it will come out as low P. use d/b+K to MC the low P, then high throw.

Another thing I read somewhere says to use a cancelled f,f+p after the d/f+P+K chop to move forward, then high or low throw (instead of dashing).

spotlight

 

Hmm, is that book OB? In TB, typically, low attack MCs give low throw opportunities, not high.

As for f,f+P I've found that d/f+P moves Aoi faster and with better recovery time.

ice-9

 

Since we're discussing Aoi...

I'd just like to know who really uses her d,d+p low double palm. Seems it doesn't get used much, personally I bring it out once in awhile but not in any real useful fashion.

 

Yeah, that is from a book that focuces on OB, but I guess you could follow with a low throw (or other things). Not being an Aoi player, I haven't tried it out, but thought it sounded cool.

spotlight

 

Re: Since we're discussing Aoi...

Whenever I play Aoi I toss in a few random dd+p's just for fun. It's slightly slower than her elbow, but it's surprising how often you get a little stagger off of it. Also the d/f+p (MC), dd+p d,U+p is a fun little combo.

Let's also not forget the annoying dodge/setup of bb+pk (g cancel) as well. Nothing more beautiful than using it and avoiding your opponent's elbow, then CD'ing in for a throw.

-Jason