Let's talk about the issue of VF4 TR staggers

just wanted to see what the restrictions are to getting this out, cause i heard about special combos done all the time in VF4 where you don't go for maximum damage after each float combo and instead do special combos so you recover faster than the opponent, then do something like sidekick stagger the opponent as he/she begins to tech roll.

i'm assuming:
knock down the opponent, then sidekick them RIGHT as they begin to TR.

i'm guessing that's the basic idea, feel free to clear me up if that's wrong.

what else, oh yeah, i hear all about backstaggering, where people basically TR stagger the opponent and he/she falls on their knees facing AWAY from you; is this the same as TR staggering, or different?

input would be appreciated, thanks

 

My impression is that you can't really touch the TR with a sidekick, but at the end of the TR you're up against a crouched opponent. In the PS2 training sessions they show that a sidekick at this point will stagger the opponent at the end of the TR, but the next trial shows the opponent low punching and beating this move. Possibly a perfectly timed sidekick will beat anything they can possibly try and get a guaranteed stagger. Other mid moves like akira's b,f+P+K seem to hit DURING the TR and not at the end of it. I'm almost positive some moves can interrupt a TR and don't just connect when they're done rolling. This doesn't apply to every midlevel knockdown attack... knees whiff. Lau's heelkick hits but can be stuffed, so it's hitting at the end of the TR. Only b,f+P+K seems to hit cleanly. I'd have to experiment repeatedly to see if it's actually interrupting the TR or hitting at the end of it.


If the opponent falls facedown and tries a TR, moves like a simple low kick or elbow will hit the opponent and leave them backturned. Either A: they TR and end up by default facing backwards at the end of the TR or B: they TR and end up as usual (crouching, facing you), but during the TR they are considered a backwards croucher.

I think the best way to deal with TR's is this:

1. If possible, find a move like akira's b,f+P+K that seems to hit TR's no matter what. Attacks that are circular, hit dodgers easily, or track well are all good candidates. For lau, I use a simple d+K+G sweep. Wolf players use d/f+P+K from what I've seen.

2. If you can't consistently hit the opponent during or right at the end of the TR, figure out what they like to do after TRing and counter that. For example if they like to just wait or guard, a low throw will nail them. If they use a FC attack like lau's heelkick or akira's double palm, you may be able to interrupt it or reverse.

3. If all else fails, try for the sidekick stagger thing. A stagger isn't as nice as free, guaranteed damage (option 1) but it's useful.


and PS, if it wasn't clear, staggering a TR isn't the same as back-staggering a TR.
Backstaggering a TR takes some luck because knocking your opponent onto their face is not common. A typical example I see of this is when a move crumples the opponent (they start to fall on their face) and then you hit them during that crumple with a move/combo. They are then free to TR but are going to land on their face, leading to your free back-stagger. In theory.

 

What determine the direction of tech-roll(into/out of the screen)? Does the joystick direction affects the TR, or the stance ther're in before they get knocked down?
I used Pai's u|d+P+K to trip opponent during their TR, but sometimes I guessed wrong on they TR direction...

 

thank you so much(you too creed). it's just i was lazy going up to the search option and clicking on it; i'll do it next time.

 

you roll in the direction of the joystick input. That pai trick is nice by the way.

 

Re: Pai's trip and TR

Thanks.
Regarding Pai's trip, if I wait till opponent TR then input u|d+P+K, it would be too late right? Means I really has to guess correctly on the direction before opponent TR(if they TR at all).
Something funny, with Pai, knock down an opponent near a wall, while opponent was wall-hit and falling down, do the trip, which sometimes hit them otb.

 

Re: Pai's trip and TR

Hey guys, well just got done reading the Break Falling sections just opened. Good Job! Anyway I got a little confused as to what is the advantage of Holding the "G" button while TRing so your opponents attacks track you? What would this do for you?

 

Re: Pai's trip and TR

Anyway I got a little confused as to what is the advantage of Holding the "G" button while TRing so your opponents attacks track you? What would this do for you?

Guarantees that the attack would track and then hit you if it was timed right. Not much of an advantage... /versus/images/icons/blush.gif

The point is to wait until the end of the tech roll to press G, if you think your opponent is going to back off.

I find myself almost always attacking out of tech rolls, however... ack when I'm tired I end up using high kicks a lot because I'm expecting to get a normal mid-level rising attack... sux for me. Must learn to start dodging after tech rolling more often to mix it up...