Limbs getting caught

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Shadowdean, Oct 3, 2001.

  1. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    IN VF3, you do lau's K+G and if it was blocked, the leg got caught up sorta...that does not seem to be the case in four. Does anybody have a list of which attacks just "pass through" that got caught up in 3?

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     
  2. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Recovery animation is all but gone in VF4. That's why the game is much faster and has been linked to VF2 so much. I prefer the back track to VF2 as the fights are far more fluid. Back in VF3tb, using Sarah, if someone blocked her Heel Seed or Overhead Edge Kick she would be at a disadvantage and be forced to take almost anything the opponent wanted send at her. The removal of block animation allows for more brutal matches without the fear of unjust reprisal. I believe the Major Counter (MC) should be the key to capitalising on your foes errors.

    Adio.
     
  3. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Is the recovery time really less in VF4 for blocked sweeps & crescent kicks? Can't wait to see the frame stats to back this up.

    IMO, minor counters are the heart of the game... knowing what's possible after successfully blocking an opponent's attack. Additionally, if your opponent also knows this and just passively blocks because he thinks the standard PK reply is coming-- punishing him with a throw... unfortunately I used to be the victim of this ploy as much as I used it myself... =)
     
  4. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Yeah. With regards to Sarah, you can pretty much crescent to your hearts content, which is great as it allows me to use her kicks to keep my opponents at bay. For me, counters are my only bane, being so simple now I'm forced to mix up my moves or face getting my knees snapped.

    My style of play takes more advantage of the Major counter than the minor one. Sarah's Elbow and Side Kick are the only moves that produce it. Still, thanks to verB the Double Joint Bat (Elbow-Knee) has almost no float so that's no longer in my game so much. And the Side Kick is just a poke without the Extra kick to make the Illusion or the full three that produce the Mirage Kicks.

    As I was saying, Sarah relies on Major Counters in order to get a PPPK variant or a Flamingo string on a float. The Knee and the Dragon Cannon (db+K) are her key launchers. Toe Kick Punt Kick is ok as it will guarantee a Punt Kick Side Kick But it's too much of a risk IMO.

    Adio.
     
  5. MADrox

    MADrox Well-Known Member

    Yupa,
    well so far in test version, i did notice against CPU and human oppenents with lau, all spin kicks blocked gave me time to do quick d/f,d/f+pg with Jeffry, so timing seemed the same as in vf3. Low sweeps blocked were the same for me as in 3. All characters with low throws were able to do it immediately.
    Pai / jacky were the only ones that seemed to have quicker recovery on spin kicks, but sweeps were same as others.

    The one problem i have is with knees. Jacky is the quickest one for me and i can't really get a throw out after a blocked knee. Attack is easier, but still getting timing down in game.

    later,



    __-___---____
     
  6. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    With regard to blocked knees, anyone's really, I've always found it to be more reliable to hit the opponent rather than throw. It's so tempting to throw but if I had nickel for every time I blocked a knee and then got thrown, i'd be very very wealthy. Go for the hit, forget throwing, imo.

    Yupa, AFAIK, the recovery for blocked rising sweeps, etc., are virtually the same as VF3 even though they look like VF2s animation. I, too, am keen on seeing the frame stats - if they ever come out. :)

    cheers,

    <font color=white>Llanfair</font color=white>
    <font color=orange>Booyah daddy mac! I'm stylin!</font color=orange>
     
  7. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    >The removal of block animation allows for more brutal matches without the fear of unjust reprisal.

    this is a total bullshit line which i've heard tossed out a bunch of times regarding this subject. 95% of the moves in vf2 that gained stop animations in vf3 were just as counterable as they were in vf2. i.e. - lau is equally fucked after having his d+K+G or PPP(d+)K etc blocked in vf2 and vf3. and so on, through the other characters for almost all of their other moves.

    some stop animations actually had a faster recovery period than the full, no-stop animation. as well as the fact that even though some moves had stop animations, they were still uncounterable, something which people can't seem to grasp.

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  8. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Regarding the stop animations, I wish that AM2 had taken a different approach. I don't exactly like the stop animations in 3, but I definitely don't like the "limbs going through" thing either. I was hoping for more like, let's say, Lau's K+G when blocked, the animation would have his kick blocked and his kick retracting back to his usual stance. I think it'd look more natural that way without really changing the gameplay much.
     
  9. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    I am with you on this, the animation could be changed...its just lazyness I Think having ghost limbs...in certain situations, a limb getting caught up on someone is just realistic and I think VF4 should of kept it as such....just do it realistically...could of made the opponent stumble..things like that..

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     
  10. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    i agree with you. however, in VF4 a lot of big hitting moves produce a big push on the defender ( mostly high hitting moves, but many mid hitting moves as well ) they added this in place of the block animation i think. it encourages use of big hitting moves, at least among scrub players, and increases the distance for a throw counter, for everyone, until i learn the system better, its annoying. in VF3 in many cases you could clearly see the thow oppurtunity after a big hitting move, in VF4 its not so clear. with the throws being catch throws do you think (unless its from point blank range) that expert players would eventually be able to attempt at least a single throw reverse after visually seeing their opponents characters arms go out for a throw?
     
  11. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    I didn't think you could reverse catch throws. Just interrupt them with a punch or be ducking at the time the catch throw would have connected.

    Are hit throws reversible in VF4? (i.e. Jeff's Toe Kick of Doom and others...)
     
  12. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    You can't (at least in 3) reverse catch throws. In addition to an attack, you can interrupt a catch with a throw.
     
  13. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    as with vf3tb, catch throws and back throws are not reversable in vf4 rev B. back throws were reversable in rev A, but they tossed that...

    i haven't seen any indications which hit throws are reversable in vf4, if any are at all. the only ones in vf3tb that you could get out of were jeff's b,df+P+K hit throws...

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  14. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    as with vf3tb, catch throws and back throws are not reversable in vf4 rev B. back throws were reversable in rev A, but they tossed that...

    Just checking... back throws are no longer escapable in ver.B, but side throws still are, right? Also, does anyone know if you can escape low back throws (unlikely) and low side throws (unsure) in ver.B?

    Re: catch throws being unescapable. There are a couple of exceptions... Wolf's giant swing is a catch throw that can be escaped with f+P+G... his d/u,n+P+G can also be escaped by b+P+G. There might be a couple more exceptions, but I can't think of any right now...


    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    side throws are still escapable in rev B. dunno about low back and low side throws. i haven't read anything on it. i'd guess not.

    japanese web sites (many of which just transcribe what's in the new books) do not classify wolf's GS or his dodging throw as catch throws. take that for what it's worth...

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  16. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    VF4 throws are NOT the same as VF3 including so called normal throws. They are similar to tekken throws, as you know, they have a 'catch' frame window, where they will throw someone, maybe this is only 10-20 frames, but it makes a big difference. like tekken, sometimes you see your character throw their arms out to grab someone for a throw, after your character has done this you see them grab someone (ie the part where throws are not instant) maybe this only applies to characters with a big throw range, like vanessa, who has a massive range on her low throws (the only character in VF4 i can comment on) to me they ARE tekken style, especially if your comparing VF4 throws to VF3. maybe only 'catch throws intterupt attacks, but normal command throws seem to have a larger window then in 3. in fact they have, thats a fact.
     
  17. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Er... you think? VF4 regular throws feel just like VF2 or VF3 throws to me. There is a little animation where the thrower's hands extend, before the throw actually executes, but AFAIK, that hand-extending animation is just there for show, after the fact... the throw execution phase has actually occurred before that animation. (Referring to regular throws, not catch throws.)

    What *has* changed, however, is the buffer window of the command throws, viz. you can crouch dash and press P+G much later than in VF3 and still get the df,df+P+G throw to come out.


    [​IMG]
     
  18. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Can you throw an opponent out of an execution frame of their attack? (as far as I know, that's a characteristic of Tekken throws)
     
  19. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    ok, help me out. if you see the arms go out, and you guess the right throw reverse, will it count?
     
  20. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    in my experience yes . but only attacks that have a reasonable execution time. it will never happen against P(G) or d+p attacks. you can use K(G) to escape VF4's normal throws. all i can say is that if VF3 throws were out in 1 frame, you'd only see them if they missed, or connected. in VF4 they SEEM to miss but because of the extended window they can catch the opponent. i think what has happend is that with counters doing such massive damage, that a lot more moves have been added to the list of moves that can be thrown in execution frames. soon we will know.
     

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