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Lion Q&A thread

Discussion in 'Lion' started by Darksoul173, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. Ares-olimpico

    Ares-olimpico Well-Known Member Content Manager Lion

    PSN:
    ares-olimpico
    Hi.
    Sorry @Jason Elbow, a typo i edited, must say "don't know 4pp give him +1 "
    Where I say as combo ender i mean after a bound like 43p+k in anywhere or others in the wall
     
  2. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    This is why, in the above, I state that it is arguably bad against opponents who have very fast reflexes as well as opponents who mash on attacks. Because this stance can be hit out of. Okay, I should have said it is outright bad against such opponents.

    In general, I advise against using this stance but... it is “an option” in situations where you make it an option (or the opponent just doesn’t react strongly in general).

    The stance option should never be bread and butter simply because it can be defeated easily and it sacrifices more tried and true options.

    But against slow & defensive opponents, that guard break option from stance might be worth considering.

    Also... even against strong opponents with sharp reflexes, there may be opportunities where the match has conditioned or pressured an opponent into turtling a bit or being slow to respond to your options, or even being conditioned hard by what you normally do with 4P. In moments like these, you might have opportunity to finish an opponent off quickly by guard breaking them or setting them up with stance. You should not be trying hard for these opportunities—but it can be a rewarding skill to find these opportunities out in the blue and be able to seize upon them and get a high reward.

    For me, a fun thing about Lion is that in so many iterations of him, he has been a character that can reward whimsical play and has always given me a lot of tools to change up my options and mess with my opponent. In VF5R and VF5FS, Lion has become crazy strong with such strong bread and butter play. But before VF5R, Lion was generally a low reward character who rewarded gimmicky play, some confusing animations, and calculated risks. And he still rewards all of these things (he just also now rewards solid play so well too).

    I’m proud that I have landed 4P+K combos even against Japanese legends. I’m proud that I have actually used 4PP —> stance —> Guard Break on top players in North America. The trick is... not try-harding or forcing it too hard (though I have done that to great disaster). But having enough “messing around” experience with Lion in so many matches that I feel comfortable finding certain moments when an opponent is susceptible to the peek-a-boo combo or the most interruptable guard break sequence in the game :p

    Anyways... yes, stance is a bad option. But there are ways to use it. But you are not going to use that stance like a safe-jump in other fighting games—it is inherently unsafe.
     
  3. Stl_Tim

    Stl_Tim Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    4p,p is all in it’s application how you use it.

    Your best option is from sideturned position.

    Let’s say we set it up 4p blocked at -3, but the opponent doesn’t know the 2nd high p is coming or not?!

    If the opponent attacks with 2p st you are at -4.
    If the opponent evades p in the string 4p,p you are at small disadvantage.
    If the opponent mids you now it interrupts and gains +7 maintaining side lock.
    If the opponent attacks with high you now interrupt and gain +7 maintaining side lock.
    If the opponent blocks you are at -1 side lock with the option of stance select.
    If the opponent tries to throw it interrupts and you gain +7 maintaining side lock.

    As you can see 3 choices allow +7 st lock w/stance option legitimately.

    Let’s take a step back now and think how can I force them to do this consistently?

    Lion needs to force poke/throw to gain counterhits.
    Could we agree on that? I surely think yes.

    We now can somewhat force an opponent by attacking the mind and luring them into lion’s trap.

    After scoring we are +7 sideturned stance select. In his stance sideturned we also have a pseudo advantage of +3 for mids added to the existing sideturned scenario. By now, if we have conditioned them to go into statue form our guard break from stance can work.

    It grants us a sideturned (+19)!
    From here it all depends on your route to the wall to create stagger.

    Obviously, if they don’t stand still and you know they will attack the stance has frame specific other loops you can choose from. Try it out!

    Also, 4p,p can be used in any float combo if your opponent is consistently techrolling. However it is all weight dependent combos to get the stance to turn into real meaties. Your essentially trading damage for continual pressure lockdown guess to wall stagger.

    Lion is all about the wall.
     
    Chanchai likes this.
  4. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    Hey Chanchai can 4 pp be used to jail someone on side turn like what tim said?
     
  5. Ares-olimpico

    Ares-olimpico Well-Known Member Content Manager Lion

    PSN:
    ares-olimpico
    Tim and Elbow, Elbow and Cmoney. People like talk and i have no Internet to fight poor me
     
  6. Stl_Tim

    Stl_Tim Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    Please leave your personal conflict for another thread. This is for lion questions and answers.
    Let’s keep this on the tracks gents.
     
    DomAug, Jason Elbow and Ares-olimpico like this.
  7. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Well, I believe Tim was illustrating good side turn pressure and when 4PP can be considered a good option (but it is sacrificing damage for pressure).

    That said, Lion’s side turn game is quite good and every Lion player should work on his side turn game :)
     
  8. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    Oh i know i do! Let me ask. On side turn, is there any benifits to using 1 or 2 P+K besides being true lows?
     
  9. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    Wow i cant believe im liking a Tim quote but yeah. Lion info only punk. Brush up on your Lau knowledge first Cuck Money.
     
  10. Ares-olimpico

    Ares-olimpico Well-Known Member Content Manager Lion

    PSN:
    ares-olimpico
    HI mantes.
    The use of 1p+k in my opinion is a matter of mind game, you think your opponents dont think you will use it and probably dont defense this evade side. Me use to end rounds or create wall setups
    For 2p+k you can do 2p+k4 this is safe can enter in backturned minds games or create wall combos and cover the other side.
    Of coourse with your opponent side turned your risk using 1p+k or 2p+k is less and can cause a wall splash or wall hit i.e 2p+k4 CH (wall hit and your opponent is not a struggle god) p_k (side crumple) DM OR OM to put you front the wall 9p wall splash... If your opponent will not dead end the combo for another pressure setup
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
    Chanchai likes this.

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