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Lion sabakis

Discussion in 'Lion' started by Batcommander, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. Batcommander

    Batcommander Member

    Would anyone be able to list what moves Lion's sabakis work against?

    I'm talking about:
    1) 4PKG (this especially, since i want to use this stance more often in my gameplay)
    2) 214P
    3) the PKG parries

    Thank you!
  2. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Testing the sabaki attacks is on my list of VF stuff to try to squeeze in this week, actually ^_^ I will be testing these more to have a real comprehensive list, but... here's what I've gathered from just playing (but could be off or misinterpreting)--this is an incomplete list for sure:

    1) 4P+K+G: Sabaki's high punches for sure. Have not tested on mid-fists, but does not sabaki mid elbows. Definitely needs testing, but I do successfully use it when reading high punches, and it is wonderful.

    2) 214P: Does not sabaki the VF4-VF5 sets of attacks (which included stuff like high punch). It does sabaki sidekicks, knees, and I am pretty certain it sabaki's normal high kicks. That's about all that I know it sabakis.

    3) As far as I know, P+K+G parries high/mid single fist and elbow attacks that do not knockdown. If it knocks you down on normal hit, you are not going to parry it.
  3. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Extra Testing Done! And here are the results:

    * Sabaki's any high single fist/elbow attack, including knockdowns like single palm.
    * DOES NOT sabaki double handed high attacks.
    * DOES NOT sabaki mid fist or elbow attacks.

    * The following attacks from stance are guaranteed on sabaki: PP; K; P+K; 2KK; K+G. Of course I would recommend 2KK for the combo (sample: 2KK --> 2P --> 66P+K --> 6PP).

    * Does sabaki the following things: High Kick, High Knee, Mid Knee, Mid Kick/Side Kick, Axe (Downward Slamming) Mid Kicks, Angled Mid/High Kicks (ie. Jean's 3K+G), And Quick Small Hop Kicks Where the Kick Happens Upon Takeoff (like Jean's 9K+G, this is not the same as a hopping kick).

    * DOES NOT sabaki Full-Spinning Circular Kicks, Airborn Kicks (like Jean's Unblockable Flying K or real hop kick), or Kickflips.

    * As a rule, non-full circular mid or high single kicks from the ground or very close to the ground.

    * Sabaki is the only way to crumple with this attack in Final Showdown.

    * For the combos, check out the combo lists ^_^

    P+K+G (Punch Parry)
    * Generally any single fist high/mid attacks that do not knockdown on normal hit. This includes high/mid uppercuts, high punches, mid punches, elbows and high elbows.

    * This also includes Jean's 66P because it really just puts the opponent at a disadvantage with extra restrictions--it does not knockdown by itself.

    * How about guardbreaks? As long as the Guard-Break uses a single arm and would not have knocked you down on normal hit.

    * There really isn't much advantage gained, you will almost always want to use the evade option that comes with a successful parry. The opponent's attacks can still track you if you press a button, even if you evaded. The advantage gained is very small, but a successful parry basically cheats a successful evade for you.

    * Whether there is a guaranteed attack or not depends on the move parried as well the safety of your situation when you strike. At the very least you are guaranteed repositioning and most of the time neutralizing the opponent's attack.

    * In many cases you can reposition yourself behind your opponent by using this move and evading in a specific direction. If you use the parry early against a string, it is likely you will want to evade in a very specific direction (front or back of opponent). Most of the time you will shift the position 90 degrees if you use the evade option with this parry.

    2P+K+G (Low Parry)
    * As far as I have tested, the rules are simple--parries any non-full-circular single-limbed low attack (punch or kick) that does not knockdown on normal hit.

    * DOES NOT PARRY any attack that knocks down or is double-limbed (like Wolf's 652K).

    * Successful parry is similar to P+K+G Parry.

    I did not test every single move, merely moves that came to mind and fit the pattern of attacks these moves suggest they should be sabaki-ing and maybe a few extra for added measure. it is very possible I missed something there, but this is what my personal testing has found.
    Pai~Chun, G0d3L, PoisonKid13 and 2 others like this.
  4. Batcommander

    Batcommander Member

    2 things:

    1) This is extremely helpful.
    2) You're a peach! [​IMG]

    Thanks for this!
  5. Stl_Tim

    Stl_Tim Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    PKG/2PKG: I like going to their back, because for me seems to work more consistently.
    One move I like to use is 336P+K during perry evade. This way it pushes opponent away if blocked. Of course, it's a guessing game and based on opponents actions.

    pkg>towards back, so say back is 2>336p+k(side crumple)>46k+g>p>43p+k>6pp>1k+g(if no tech)>3p.
    Also, this can be used from 41p+g during 2_8.

    Note: pkg2_8(should be done as one input)>then 336p+k should come out easier during 2_8.
    btrm and Chanchai like this.
  6. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Good stuff Tim ^_^

    BTW, was so much fun fighting Lion vs Lion with you last night! Actually, it's always fun fighting Lion vs. your Lion--I feel like we're having fun trying to nail each other with interesting stuff, sometimes edge-case stuff too and I love it!

    I definitely do need to work on Side-Turn and opponent Back-Turned game and Lion has this as a great tool for that.
  7. AnimalStaccato

    AnimalStaccato Well-Known Member

    Ah, so you buffer the 336P+K into the 2/8 evade. That's a bit risky though. If the parry was unsuccessful you're going to get a sidestep coming out. I try to check to see if it's successful (blue flash) before I enter 2 or 8.
  8. Stl_Tim

    Stl_Tim Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    It's a mixup of throw/p/3k/336p+k/2_8 by itself and read oncoming move to set trap.
    Btw- you have enough time to perry confirm before buffer. Just practice in dojo.
  9. Stl_Tim

    Stl_Tim Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    Note: his pkg/2pkg can be done very early which in turn helps with command input during 2_8.
  10. YOMI

    YOMI not a legendary game designer

    From my experience the P+K+G_2P+K+G parry doesn't give any advantage at all, with or without the evade 2_8 extension, but you should do it every time because that evade has a built-in throw extension which I *think* is always guaranteed after a succesful parry. The same goes for the 16P+G catch throw.

    TL;DR: P+K+G~2_8, P+G_2P+K+G~2_8, P+G every time.
    Chanchai likes this.

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