Lion Strategy

Sup peeps. I'll be going over some strategy i often use while playing Lion in matches. I don't claim to be an expert. I'm just sharing what I have found. Anyone who knows Lion, or has any useful info please feel free to give your two cents!
SIDETURN GAME:
Now whether you used or to st your opponent, there's a couple of options you have due to having the advantage. One is if you are noticing the opponent is after a you can cause a side collapse with . Since leaves you in a crouching state (and thus buffering the input) you can just input the . Then combo. Another option is . on sideturn guarenteeds a , which is a natural combo on sideturn. Then from there you can either throw or use // as a mix- up. has a high guard break, a quick mid that staggers crouchers and causes a gut collapse on CH, a 2 hit mid half circular hand swipe, and a half circular high and full circular mid kick. While / has a half circular low that causes a leg collapse on CH. A 3 hit linear mid high mid string in which the first hit staggers crouchers and can be delayed. And a half circular ex high that can't be 'd and knocks down on NH for a combo. Now if Lion sideturning moves happen to hit CH then is guarenteed, provided they don't . If you anticipate this use then . Now if it hits normal the opponent can evade that where Lion High full circular comes into play. guarenteed (keep in mind the opponent can still but can't block). Rinse repeat. There is also a low option mix-up with which another Natural Combo on ST. I normally use this when my ST moves dont hit CH. A really good move to use.
NEUTRAL GAME:
Now the mid or throw is the basic mix- up in VF. It is the cornerstone of offense. Like many others Lion has a standard elbow ( )class mid, only with a follow up. Both hit mid with the follow up knocking down. Here in lies the meta game mix- up. Do I stand block the second mid and potentially eat a throw? Or duck the possible throw attempt and get knock flat on my ass by the follow up mid? Hmmmm choices, choices.... A good pressure tool to use is standing . One reason is because Lion along with a few others is 11f (the others being Kage, Eileen and Pai), while everyone else's is 12f. Another one is because on block is +2. If I pressure using with Lion, people often abare with . So I use () which is a pretty quick mid that is great for interrupting attacks and launches on CH.
I also love to use because it avoids a lot of High and a few Mids (normally mid hitting kicks). And grants a head collapse on NH hit.
BAITING TACTICS:
is a great move to trap with. It's a low and the follow up is a High. Knowing this people tend to duck in order to avoid the high and punish. But there where comes in. crushes lows on the first frame, is half circular and the following is a natural combo. Also if the CHs the opponent is in a juggle state and can be comboed.They don't duck but stand and block then throw or pressure with or . is also a Natural Combo on RH like after a whiffed wake up mid or low.
WAKE UP GAME:
The move I like to use for mid wake up kicks is . It can avoid them with the right timing and grants a head collapse. The timing can be hard. You need to do it right when they start to execute their mid rising KICK. Then charge it so their kick whiffs then release. Now for the low wake up kick just low crush it with . But for a greater reward use . While it doesn't have the low crushing properties of it has better range, damage and combo capabilities. Just make you have a read in the wake up low because It is a little slow. It can also beat out a mid rising kick from a back recovery roll. You just have to time it as they are getting up with their backs turned to attack. This all I have for now. Please everyone feel free to add and grow the collective. Peace!

 

As a fellow Lion main, I really like to see how people have differing opinions of play on this character. But here is just my 2 cents on the strategy of Lion play.

Sideturn game:

is a great move no doubt. Side turning on hit is a great thing but I hardly ever see anyone discuss the range of this move. The range is actually close to that of a mid kick and I think that's the other factor that makes this move really strong.

*Legendary Strategy*: Try doing and upon hit, if your opponent tries to evade the incoming mid kick, you can actually use again to hit them during their evasion. Keep in mind this only works against those who know how Lion "flows". If your going against an average player, you're more than likely getting 2Ped, which is the correct answer to this side turned guessing game.

is a move that i've struggled to this day to incorporate into my Lion's arsenal. It's a 23 frame mid that tracks one side and is -4 which is really safe. The problem is that at 23 frames, the only time you will realistically use this move is on you're opponent's wake-up when they tech off the ground. At that point, I feel there are more rewarding options such as a simple , mix-up to keep up the pressure game, the aformentioned , the list goes on. And if you're opponent techs close to the wall, that's a whole different scenario altogether.

/ stance is fairly decent. However, I don't think that it's best to use this as a mix-up or even as a followup to on sideturn. The problem is that you're only +3 after hitting on sideturn. If you're opponent is half-decent, they are either going to launch you before you can get any of your move out OR (if they really know Lion) they will just block the first from / and then crouch the follow-up high if you do that. /, and /, are both crouch-able and slow to execute, a very deadly combination for Lion.

*Legendary Strategy*: The best strategy and use of / stance is actually again, on you're opponent's wakeup. And again, the best scenario to use it is when your opponent decides to do a quick get up from the ground either teching towards the screen or away from the screen. You as the Lion player would have to read the opponent and input either direction/ to "chase" the opponent. If guessed and timed correctly, /, should hit your opponent and cause a stagger since they were "hit" while "crouching" from their tech roll. You can practice this in Dojo by setting up the dummy to tech roll either away or towards the screen.


Neutral game:
I actually think Lion's neutral game is very underwhelming. 11f high punch is great and all, but that's really all he's got going at close range. , is not delayable unlike most of the cast with an elbow followup. This means that, if the opponent knows what they are doing, there would be no reason to duck the second hit at all. Elbow into throw is a sound strategy only if you're opponent has been conditioned to react as such. If not, they can and will punish you for trying to attack at -5. , is a whopping -13 if blocked too. That means, at best your going to get punished. At worst, you're going to get thrown. And against some characters, Lion just can't afford to take that kind of risk.

*Interesting fact*: One thing to note is that Lion's is one of the few 16 damage elbow in the game. (Pai and Shun are the other two, but they at least have a 14 frame or faster alternative move.) This means that if you clash with another 14 frame move on the same frame, you are probably going to lose because everyone else's elbow is 17 damage. Rare scenario but nevertheless something for Lion players to be aware of.

*Legendary Strategy*: The best way I've been able to play the neutral game is to play outside of your opponent's standard range. At this range, most moves will whiff and Lion can capitalize on the opponent's mistakes. Playing up close and personal has never worked well for me personally since most of Lion's moves are on the slower end which does not lend well to fighting up close. Other players have disagreed with me on this topic, stating most of Lion's pokes are safe on block anyway, therefore why would you not pressure upclose. And to that, I say that most of his highs and mids leave him at around -6 to -9. Although safe, you're in a situation where you must hard guess an incoming mid or throw (nitaku situation for VF vets). For me, Lion's damage from his pokes doesn't warrant the risk of getting thrown for huge chunks of damage (I blame the throw system for this) and attacking at -6 to -9 (abare) is extremely risky because Lion's moveset is already slower than most of the cast's moveset. Evasion can definitely mitigate the risk of retaliation from the opponent but if they catch on, you're going to be eating a lot of throws in return for constantly trying to poke --> evade.

Baiting Tactics:
is a decent move but as a baiting move, it's only going to be catching lower skilled players. On block, its -13 on its own without the follow up. Not exactly launch punishable but not exactly worth the risk of getting thrown for either. Delaying the follow-up is usually the best way to not get punished but a simple would beat out anything Lion would do after is blocked or if the is crouched. into only works if the opponent goes for . If you're opponent ops for a standard 17 frame mid launch on NM or block knowing your at disadvantage, you're going for a wild ride because is 18 frames.

*Legendary Strategy*: I've found , to be a very good whiff punishing tool after any pokes I've thrown out such as a mid-kick. Bating you're opponent to retaliate to your pokes then backing up and hitting them with , is very efficient and effective especially against players who are very twitchy and like to press buttons immediately after blocking an attack. Another really under utilized baiting move is ,. The first hit is a 14 frame high but +0 on block. The second hits mid and is very delayable and tends to deter you're opponent from crouching. When delayed, the second can even catch evading players pressing buttons. Usually a into throw or low poke works once you've conditioned your opponent into not pressing buttons against the follow-up .

Wake Up Game:
Although against rising mid kicks and against rising low kicks works well enough, the problem is getting them down consistently. And getting to clash with your opponent's rising attack is nightmare in of itself. If you're opponent delays their get-up or even their rising kick, neither moves will work. Honestly, I've found just blocking against their mid rising kicks or even leaving space between you and the opponent from wake up to be the best options in the wake up game than rather going for the more gimmicky options, although I can't deny that landing them is very satisfying.

 

I value your input. Thanks. I've learned no two people play a character the same. Bounty's Aoi has a vast stark contrast to Kruza's Aoi. Same character, different playstyles. I have to say based on your input. We both play Lion differently. Like for example; I rarely use outside of the guard break from . And I do pressure with and (with cdgc). These are the tactics I mainly use. But I always open to helpful info.

 

You are right. Those won't hit consistantly on wake up. But they will if you set up for them. Like after , or a combo ending in . The position and distance the opponent lands gives you the opportunity to avoid their wake up mid kick and get a combo.

 

thanks to both for the info i dont use and without charge very rarely versus low rising kick i usally use or if i am far of my oppent try with or , guessing i think the best option is .
if i remenber well the best use of is againts a side turned opponent where the follow-up is a natural combo.
When i need low and not have large advantage (or fearing) i use if connect the back turned game of lion have not high damage but dificult to defense, near the wall in Counter BT is almost guaranteed to a wall splash that can be finished with or start a guessing meaty with Full Charge or another one if your opponent roll (I'm ordering my notes about that).
FC can use as the same way above in typical combo with FC.
i will try after
EDIT: OR enter as meaty in oppnent rolling

 

Hello i'm updating Lion's Combo section adding Back Turned () in side crumple i usually use me a my opponent parallel to the wall to cause a wall hit if he dont struggle very fast will connect in the side then normal side crumple combos like > or >>. can be do
The Side Crumple is very long you have time to do a OM or to put you more front the wall and start a wall combo like >>>> for 120pts or another wall combo
The question is more strategys to do big damage near (not front) the wall.
i know , maybe ,maybe , >> Only Mayor Counter iirc, and another can cause the Side Crumple in this situation
Contributions and Questions are Wellcome

 

Lion combos are so stylish. I'm so jelly. That is all.

 

Heres the one side parallel wall combo i do: side wall stagger, bt , , wall slide, and either , or into a potential meaty. The meaty i use the most is full charge then into mixup.

 

Another tricky set up I've seen is 44K+G (wall hit stagger) -> BT K -> 9P -> 46P+K -> 46K+G -> P -> 43P+K -> 4P+K charge.
43P+K will not produce the slam, and it is tempting for the opponent to tech roll. You can confirm their roll while charging 4P+K. If they don't roll, stop charging. If they do roll, hold for full charge. If it hits correctly they should get hit meaty.

 

Damn this is actually some good shit! Imma have to use this!

 

@Jason Elbow Thanks, i guess this setups is 45 or 90 degrees with the wall correct?
I check 44P needs CH
Edit: 1P+K Work with the other leg forward than 44K+G and 9K in CH i will check guranteed or not, not remenber sorry

 

Hey Ares, in Lion's , , , , combo I have dash right before the right?

 

Oh and to answer your question you peform the when you and the opponent is parallel to the wall and your back is facing it. It creates the stagger that leads to a combo.

 

Sorry @Jason Elbow you are right i said the "tricky" setups of @Toto
I only use P+G Dash 46P+K P 43P+K 6PP Combo versus Shun and yes it needs a long Dash, timing vs Van is very similar. versus Sarah i seE a Japanese vídeo doing 334P+G 6646P+K 636P 43P+K but i dont check because the 1fkP needs very fast input. If i remenber well this combo is not listed by Lettuce vs the most light characters, i guess because inconsistent and éxits another options. Remenber 41236P+G G is good too

 

So its kinda a Shun special combo?

 

@Jason Elbow no its only i have the timing for shun. In combo section there are shun's especial but i cant do it. Lion have (another) especial that "only" need fast input listed too

 

Sorry 1P+K

 

1p+k wall staggers?

 

I believe 1P+K produces a side wall stun. To test, set CPU to have their back to a full wall. OM to one side and position yourself such that 1P+K will hit the opponent into the wall. When the opponent is hit by 1P+K they'll cry out as they hit the wall.
If you do it correctly you should have a guaranteed combo starter. For example, in a similar situation Goh is guaranteed 1P+K (19f big launch).
I believe Lion's best option is 44K, from which you can sometimes get the second wall bound (46K+G) if the opponent is caught against the wall in the right spot.

 

This sounds real situational....