Lion VF5FS Version A Change Log

This is facepalm inducing. On the one hand they map Lion's upercut to so now it's possible to use to punish 14f lows. On the other hand since elbows no longer crouch stagger it means it will only net him 20 dmg and nitaku

It's like the game hitchecks for you!

 

This 6 PP indeed seems to suck, but if I recall correctly, they made -14 blocked lows -15 in FS. So now he should be able to punish with other things like 8P+K or 4KP or he may have a new 15 frame move ?

May be it's still guaranteed on low punishs since the advantage from an elbow on crouchers is probably different from a normal hit on a side turned opponent

Still I don't really understand why they changed this,it doesnt seem THAT strong damagewise so may be it's a "RO potential is too strong" kind of nerf.

 

Somebody on the shoutbox tonight (forgot who it was, probably akai, Manjimaru or Libertine, sorry ) suggested it might actually combo vs crouched opponents.

 

This doesnt tell the whole story. It can still be a natural combo against crouchers, or even in general. Framedata of the first hit doesnt tell the whole story.

For example, in vanilla Wolfs HCB+P is -3 on normal hit. Guess what, the second hit is natural combo against crouchers regardless, due to the special mid property, or something.

(In reference to the ranking battle stream between a Lion player and a Pai player yesterday, where Lion seemed to punish blocked lows with )

I dont claim to know better than you guys, Im just saying dont look at framedata too closely.

 

It's just that the second move cancels the firts move recovery to make it a combo.
So yeah the frame data on the first hit means nothing in a canned string, it only tells what happens if you stop there.

But the original "6PP - On recovery counter hit, hits are no longer continuous" statement possibly means it's the case on crouchers as well, but I don't think so.
They changed this move command so that he could use it to punish lows from crouch, it would make no sense if it wasn't a combo in this situation.

 

VF5:FS Lion's Command List (Version A)


Here is Lion's command list with the Version A changes made. The color coding scheme represents the following:

Red - Guaranteed Knee Situation

Orange - Guaranteed Side Kick Situation

Yellow - Guaranteed Elbow Situation

Green - Guaranteed Jab Situation

Blue - Guaranteed Throw Situation


Be aware that the figures displayed under the "Side Counter Hit +/-" column found within the "SideData" tab are derived from damage values on normal hit. Counter hit damage is too variable to properly represent, so depending upon the damage dealt by a move on a counter hit, the frame advantage could, for instance, jump from a gain of 3 additional frames to a gain of 6 additional frames. The values in this command list are conservative so as not to overstate advantages.

 

Thank you Libertine

Oooh, simplified input for p,p,d+p+k!

b,b+k+g is a yet another low attack now?

The old db+k+g sweep is gone, replaced by a 17f low-high string.

His old f,f+p+g throw seems gone

Is b,b+k,p+k gone? Or it's just not mentioned again in the spreadsheet since it was mentioned under b,b+p,p+k?

...btw, speaking of the spreadsheet, it just says "down" instead of "head crumple" or "foot crumple" etc. I'm guessing most of those haven't changed though.

Also there something wrong with "Kouhohachihonsui", it has an extra [b in the command column.

Also there appears to be an error with "Kankeihoshinshou" (the double handed eye poke from TRSF) - it most certainly still knocks down on hit in the latest vids we saw.

 

I fixed the notation error you mentioned.

The Masters Guide doesn't give detailed information for a lot of moves, so if you know the hit effects for his moves in Version A, please share them and I'll update the command list.

Thanks.


EDIT:

Yes, the information for Lion is based upon one of akai's old Excel files which is in turn based upon the Masters Guide (and possibly blog information). I added information from the change log, but it doesn't go into detail about specific hit effects either.

EDIT 2:

I've fixed the information for "Kankeihoshinshou." The change log didn't give specific information on that move. Thanks akai.

 

The values under the "Side Counter Hit +/-" column are now representative of damage x1.25, the lowest multiplier.

 

Oh yeah, nowadays most guard break moves ended up having +frames, totally missed that

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Also f+p,p should be high, right?</span>
Also, wow, totally missed it, new uf+k move

Ahem, anyway, concerning hit effects. Old moves:

or slam
66P head crumple <span style="text-decoration: line-through">(it animates like 6PP too, but could still be mid, dunno)</span>
43P foot crumple
214P (second line, the one that says "Ryuuseikoushugeki/Successful Sabaki") stomach crumple
46K slam
P+K slam
4P+K head crumple
stomach crumple
or slam

New moves (if i'm not mistaken about the inputs):

6K CH (weird attack, sorta sideways) stomach crumple
4KP (foot poke, overhead smash) slam

 

No, is mid.

Thanks for the data you've provided. I'll get around to updating it.

I've also discovered that side counter hits give x1.5 damage, so I've updated the command list (again) with that information.