Lion's framestats, pushback, and counters

(8) db+PP (-17f)
Not throw counterable because Lion recovers low, but hop kick/elbow/heelkick counterable.

hmmm...equally as surprised as Jason about the elbow-counterable part, since this is one move i abuse big time and never seem to be punished for it( not that i can recall of)

but i guess its the way i use this poke... i think the reach is fairly impressive and if u execute it from the correct distance(meaning that u hit the opponent close to the tips of your pokes), you are pretty safe. Lion actually lunges forward(poke, poke) then recovers to his initial position. So i guess that when he moves back, he is at a fairly safe distance from the opponent.

My pt is actually to clarify... whether Lion, after move backwards following the pokes... will put him in a safer position than elbow-counterable?

this poke happens to be my favourite move...fast execution, good reach, hits low, and all the way until now...un-counterable?? damn,,i knew it..has to be a catch....can't have a move that is just so abusable.

 

(8) db+PP (-17f)

My pt is actually to clarify... whether Lion, after move backwards following the pokes... will put him in a safer position than elbow-counterable?

The whole point about blocked frame advantage is that, if an opponent has good timing, he can counter Lion's db+PP with an elbow (14f) or sidekick (16f) and Lion *cannot* move till the end of the 17f disadvantage. So trying to dash backwards isn't going to help here.

BUT, if the opponent hesitates on the counter for even a split second, Lion can block a mid-level move. So, understanding the theory is a good first step, but one also needs good reflexes to punish accordingly.

 

Lau Abuser wrote: Its all abt defend that's winning the game

These experiments can actually be used more effectively by the offensive minded player IMHO. These are the basic building blocks of more creative flow charts than punch--low punch--elbow--throw... /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

Lau Abuser, why don't you post about the cheapest arcades in Japan then... loser.

 

(2) b,f+K+G,d+P (-12f)
Lion recovers facing forward. Throw and P counterable.
Why would any Lion worth his salt ever use the down punch here except at end of an opponent' s lifebar or for style-points?
(3) b,f+K+G,df+P (-4f)
Lion recovers facing back. Not P counterable if Lion holds G after the move (turns around and guards). Not throw counterable if Lion does TT attack.
(I only attempt this move with mucho lifebar vs. opponent w/ little life left.)
IÂÂfve found both (2) and (3) difficult to incorporate (most likely this is due to my banana fingers) except at the end of a string as either a finisher or near end of string. b,f+K+G followed by back turned low punchÂÂc do you mean db+P or does df+P also ÂÂgworkÂÂh* * (result in back turned finish of low punch?)
b+P+K->b,f+K+G** ( followed by pounce or db+P) or positioning for Rising Counter Attack or outright Oki.
b,f+P+K->b,f+P+K,P,P->b,f+K+G**->ub+P
df+P,P->d+P->b,f+K+G->ub+P
( used at the end of a string, we enjoy referring to this as: **Watermelon Stomp) (^ ^) ÂÂcSorry I missed your NYC visitÂÂc.from what IÂÂfve heard your Lion play was creative, effective and full of deadly surprises.
db+P,PÂÂc. thx for the dataÂÂc Dubious value for the high impact player. (see BigCatÂÂfs VF2 FAQ)
I prefer just one poke , as a lead into float or threat of throw: db+P->FC_f+P
Many more cerebral cerebrations, Voom Master of Doom. <font color=blue>Bravo!</font color=blue>
Note: to door-knob abuser ÂÂc. Please leave this thread alone. <font color=black>Spammers, </font color=black>sheesh. .

 

Lau Abuser, why don't you post about the cheapest arcades in Japan then
1stly i'm just 1 week old in tokyo. Arcades aint cheap there. If u r interested in looking out for the most popular ones, i'll try.

 

I use to think d/b+PP is a pretty safe move until I realized that it is sidekick-counterable after it is blocked.

Chris, I think this move can be low-throwed when blocked right?

 

I think this move can be low-throwed when blocked right?

Yep.