Low PUNCH trouble

I just cannot figure out which move can beat the freagin /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif ...

I understand that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a great option against low punches, but that's only if you know what they are gonna do. I was looking for something that is an actual hit move to begin with so you can have some cover in case it was not a low punch.

Also there are a bunch of moves that kill low punches; such as:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, but those do not seem to work if the opponent is close to you.

Against the likes of Vannesa or Shun Di I get rapped when I low punch. Does Akira have any decent ways to kill close-up low punches? or even after you side-step a low punch, is there any overall good fast move, or is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif after a side-stepped low punch one of the best options?
I'm not looking for an all mighty anti-everything move, just what you guys think are the best attacks against low Pz

 

b+p+k+g is a low punch, high punch, high kick sabaki with a f+p follow up. This causes a stomach crumple which you can combo off of.

df+p+k+g sabaki's the same as the above move except high kick. This has a ~p follow up. The whole df+p+k+g,p string is easily hit-checkable and the follow up can be delayed.

 

Block the low punch (remember low punches can be blocked with standing guard, unlike other low attacks), and immediate 6P. This works with any character, the frame advantage you get on block is enough that your 6P will hit your opponent if they attempt a second low punch (or any slower attack). 6P might also better than PK after you evade the low punch, since the standing P will just go over your opponent's head, if they remained crouching.

If you can buffer attacks fast enough, Akira's 66P and double palm will also work quite nicely, you just need any fast mid.

If your opponent is blocking those attacks, then just throw them. That's the game's basic mixup, though... mid attack or throw when you have advantage.

There's lots of posts floating around about low punch already, as well, you can probably fine some much more in depth discussions than this, but I don't remember which threads offhand, and I don't want to recreate all of it.

 

Step back a little and think about what's happening in your fight. You've got to be doing something (or nothing) to get hit by low punch...

Some of the things you could be doing are:

1) Standing or crouching and not guarding.

2) Doing a normal high attack.

3) Doing any attack that is slower than low punch and doesn't sabaki or reverse the low punch.

4) Trying to attack when you are at disadvantage.

5) Trying to throw.


Maybe your opponent knows you're doing the above and just hits low punch to stop you. Maybe they have no idea what's going on and they're just mashing low punch.

If your opponent knows what you are doing, things are gonna be tougher no matter what you do. If they are just mashing, it's MUCH easier...

Here's one situation...

If you just blocked an attack from a low P spammer, throw out, say, an SDE (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif) and combo accordingly - because if you SDE fast enough and they're trying to low P, you WILL* counter them.


*There are exceptions to this and it's best to consider those exceptions later on.

 

If you land /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif into a combo you will absolutely destroy them for trying low punch...

I'm not saying do this all the time just waiting for a low punch but most players will throw it after a string to try to keep their offense going. If you sabaki it with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif you get a HUGE payoff compared to their whimpy low punch.

 

Best to use this if almost positive that your opponent will use low punch. A lot of players will use low p after they've connected with certain moves or even after being hit by certain moves.

For example... a lot of players will do low punch after you connect with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, so if you notice your opponent does this try a fast mid like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and you'll get counter hit or do the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif like Gernburgs suggested.

Watch out for where your opponent is using low punch and then it's easier to punish.

Maybe you just not getting the timing right when you are inputting /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, it definitely works. Infact there's not much point using it when there's any distance between you and your opponent cause their low punch will most likely whiff.

 

I also have some trouble with low punches, against people who know what their doing I mean. I just don't have them intimidated enough to NOT low punch in certain situations. But I think my issue is I hate giving up my advantage and trade a rushdown/mix-up opportunity to attempt a sabaki ( /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif). I guess it's just a chance I have to take, but I am really bad at picking those spots.

 

I think Katsudon said it before but, overcoming low-punch is really the first major hurdle in your VF5 growth. EVERYBODY goes/went through that, believe me. It's not that you CAN'T deal with low punch, it's that you don't have a good enough feel for WHEN they are going to throw it and don't have the confidence to risk anything yet. This type of stuff comes with time. As you play, it requires a lower number of repetitions of a pattern by your opponent to figure them out.

A good player will use low punch too but hopefully they will be a little less obvious. No matter what way you cut it, low punch is a good move, it's one of the best moves. It's fast and it evades all high attacks and throws.

One thing you can do is use special high attacks. They will be able to duck the special high but NOT be able to low punch you out of it. They often look high so low punchers will just continue whoring low punch and getting hit, not knowing what's going on.

There's an Eileen online (Newlyf) who is one of the biggest 2P whores ever. He low punches out of everything. I just started doing my jumping attacks (with Lion, not Akira) after blocking his strings for nice damage.

Regardless, it's more of a feel than an actual skill. Just knowing WHEN they usually throw it is the key. Use your yomi. Yomi is super-powerful in VF...

 

Thanks Gernburgs, really cleared that up for me.

 

Damn dude...I've actually played against Newlyf a number of times and got L-Peed to death, and there are some other peeps that throw.
Anyways, thanks a bunch for the advice...some things sound great, like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after a blocked low punch, I've been wanting to put this move to use due to the follow up mind games after the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif

Beligerent_feck (hahah...dude thats a funny weird ass name), I found that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif works pretty well at mid distance as well, against the likes of shun, lei, etc...characters that can play from a distance

 

Plagues advice about SDE after blocked low punch is a good way to stop them. If they attempt another low punch you'll get counter hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Might take some practice to be able to input it quick enough though.

 

If you have an XBOX vision camera you should just take a picture of your balls and send it to people every time they LP you. Usually works for me.

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif sabaki window starts from 8th frame, it does not start at the beginning of the move. This means you cannot use this move when you are in disadvantage yourself. (although we can just roll our eyes at people who use 'just' lowpunch when they have advantage)

It does shut down those random or overly aggressive lowpunchers who try to lowpunch their way out of their own disadvantage. If you hit them with something that doesnt knock down, and see them lowpunch, next time just slam them with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif "HEEL!".
(I wouldnt use the followup punch because it is punishable when blocked. Just followup a hit with a lowpunch of your own and then something else).
For example /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (hit) - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif will go far against lowpunchhappy players. Because of this utility /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is pretty important move in my own arsenal.

About /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
yes, it would be a juicy way to punish lowpunch, but I have found the timing to be a pain. Maybe its a personal problem. The sabaki window for this move is frames 1-13, which means you can only really use it out of your own disadvantage (in theory neutral situation too). In your own advantage you have to delay the sabaki or the sabaki window will be over by the time opponent low punch hits. If you just throw /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif out randomly like that, you are severely punishable if opponent does anything else than high or low punch. For this reason I dont use this move too often.

Out of the two moves listed, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif should be by far easier to use. Just remember to use it in your own advantage. It is also a safe midattack in its own right (followup /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif isnt, learn not to use the followup punch) which shouldnt be forgotten.

Other important things:

Classic and important way to deal with lowpunch spam:
block opponent low punch and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Online lag foils this (Arrghhh) so block and lowpunch in return then at least. Just learn to block the lowpunch and retaliate immediately with a relatively fast midmove. Its harder than it sounds.

You can also take distance with a backdash and use a longer range midmove like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif for juicy stagger and mixups.

If you get hit by opponent lowpunch and they continue spamming it, in theory you can use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif on reflex, but I havent actually tried it that much so dont know how it works. The timing is propably tough.

 

Plague:

If someone is good enough to stick a SDE in between 2p and 2p, then he is gangster enough to not be getting owned by 2p in the first place.

If someone did that to me I would be all like, "Whoa, this dude is not to be trifled with, bra!"

 

I've gotten a lot of comments here and on IRC about the SDE suggestion. The timing is tough unless you know another low punch is coming. Lag problems aside, if an opponent is really spamming the low punch, hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to block the oncoming low, start tapping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif, release /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and immediately hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to MC the next low punch.

REACTING to a blocked low in time for the next one... well... that's possible and really hard.

 

Gernburgs, akira doesnt have any special highs afaik, and even if he did, people CAN low punch you out of special highs unless you beat it on frames.

Happy friend & manji pretty much hit the nail on the head - unless you can do jab (guarded) ~ sde to beat lowpunch offline, don't think you're gonna get it online in reaction to a blocked lowpunch. Out of the stuff manji mentioned

"block and lowpunch in return then at least"

is probably the most reliable. and you can always do the akira online special "combo" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

 

Yeah, man. I just think for a new guy that is pretty tough. I bet that it's totally satisfying to land though. Blocked low punch---> abare attack gets snuffed by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

Byah!!!!!!!!!

Don't ever put your fist near my man region again cuz there's more where that came from!

 

backdashing into a mid-kick works if you have the room to do it. Akira's midrange game is quite teh awesome since his single-hit big moves cover a lot of ground:

Elbow
Super Dashing Elbow
Crumbling Fist
his Renkentai [double hop kick] has smashed LP spammers for me a few times, I've never been low-attacked out of it [except if it was for while rising attacks]