Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by GaijinPunch, May 15, 2002.

  1. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Where the hell did this word come from? (No, I don't need it's roots). That's to say, I've never heard it anywhere else but this board. Just curious.
  2. vf4akira

    vf4akira Well-Known Member

    I never really heard the term when I was in Japan either. However, I've seen it enough in other English boards/newsgroups though. I'd be interested in hearing where it came from. I think it appeared in the Street Fighter 2 days. I'd guess that "machi" was used to refer to the "waiting game" style of play, but I don't know for sure.
  3. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    it's japanese for "waiting".
  4. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    (No, I don't need it's roots).

    it's japanese for "waiting". [\I]

    Meaning I don't need to know what the word means, but I'll let ya slide. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
  5. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    Dude it would only make sense to know what it meant. don't ya think?
  6. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    I'm fairly sure GaijinPunch knows what it means, given he has some understanding of the Japanese language, is living in Japan, etc.

    I think he was more interested in finding out where the term was being used. He mentioned that he's only ever come across it here at Versus City.

    From memory, I first came across the term back in the VF2 days on It's mainly used to describe a playing style where you'd primarily wait for your opponent to commit to an attack first. It's extremely annoying to play against, especially if they have strong defensive skills. The equivalent English term would be 'turtle'.

    I've seen the term 'machi' being used in some VF3 mooks as well. I guess it was just picked up by some online VFers with access to Japanese sources, who then introduced it to the online community and it's been used ever since. Same deal with 'yomi'.
  7. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Thanks Myke. Yomi was going to be another thread. And yes, for the record, I know what both of them mean. I've been on the nihongo wagon for about 9 years now.

    Now, as a big of a VF geek as I am, I've never read one of the Mooks for any of the series. Just spent too much time playing. I guess it's a benefit to have pretty good players around you all the time to get tips from. :)

    Here's a term they should pick up in the west, as it's my favorite, b/c you get to downplay the ability of people who use Lau & Jacky. "One-pattern". On the arcade system, you can leave one of 8 or 9 comments which show up on their data (that anyone can see). I think they're (Agreesive, passive [this would be machi], one-pattern, technician, easy, tricky, like none other, and not enough practice). Most Lau's & Jacky's I play have one-pattern, including a Lau on my team, who has like 48. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
  8. HunterRose

    HunterRose Active Member

  9. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    If you can read Japanese, you really should not miss out on the mooks. I can't read Japanese at all, but even what bits and pieces I am able to glean from mooks I find extremely valuable. You should check them out and pass the info on to us. =)
  10. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Actually, my friends I've played with gave me one of the books (not mooks) and wasn't impressed with it. Most of 'em didnt' seem to rate any VF literature too high, so I passed. maybe I'll hunt them down.
  11. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Oh, yeah -- I went ahead and asked about this. It's apparantly a term that's been around for ages. Not just for VF4, but all the way back to Street Fighter.
  12. hananokeiji

    hananokeiji Well-Known Member

    hey Gaijin, one pattern = ichi seki?

    can you post those names in romanji? thanks!! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    kind of related (or off topic) i found out that there is also this phrase that i came across in a japanese magazine. it is called "geographical restriction", which talks about people being able to do some moves on the one player side while the others can do certain moves only on the second player side. i think this term is soooooo hilarious!!! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    really want to come and see you guys in japan soon!!!
  13. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    One Pattern - Wan Patahn (h making the a long)
    ƒƒ“ƒpÆ’^ÂÂ[ƒ“ÂÂ@is how it's written on another one there is “V‰º–³‘o (Tenka Musou) which is one of Kage's line. Means 'like none other' or something like that. Chibita's got like 60 of them, and I think he lost all his feedback one time due to a technical error. It happens - I lost all of mine as well once. /versus/images/icons/frown.gif

    As for "geographical restriction' I'm sure it means something different colloquially, but I know how it is. There's a few moves I pull off better on the other side.
  14. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    I think alot of my geographical restriction comes from faulty joysticks or awkward hand positioning. I couldnt play Akira for shit on the 2P side for a good 3 months. Only good thing that came out of it was that it forced me to concentrate more on non-joystick intensive moves, especially the knee which becomes extremely practical when you go beyond the 2/3 ~ 60% threshold of execution. What can I say ? Its a great move ( you gotta love the backhit detection ) !
  15. Akebono

    Akebono Well-Known Member

    I think playing at gatherings and tournaments will help eliminate "geo restric". but if you do have a problem with a move on a side. got into training and practice.
  16. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    Re: Machi Modified Tactics FAQ

    Hiroshi-san who grew up with a famous Sarah player in Japan would enjoy demonstrating modified Machi tactics which each character. My favorite with Lion vs. Sarah was a d+P -> b+G->df+K The distance between Sarah and Lion was important for the df+K to hit as a counter. One machi tactic required waiting for Sarah to begin to close the gap before ( Lion) executed the df+K. b+P+K+G-> also works fine here for spacing set-up. 2P flowchart ( partial list):

    Note: 4=back
    3=down forward=df
    2P=down +Punch

    1. 2P ->44 ->3K
    2. 2P ->4+G ->3K ->6P+K -> 66KK
    3. 2P ->4+G->3K -> Mantis Catch ->2 or 8-> 3PP->3P
    4. 2P ->44 ->43P
    The Mantis Catch strats have been explored in detail by [blue]MetalButter[/blue], [red]ice-9[/red] and [white]xaxak[/white] <font color="blue"> </font color>
    elsewhere here at VFDC.
  17. esrion

    esrion Member

    Re: Machi Modified Tactics FAQ

    Nowadays most people use "chikin" or "chicken" to describe machi play.
    "suka" or "sukashi" is another type, meaning those who just dance out of range for atacks, then close in.

    Regarding mooks.
    I think the reason that mooks aren't interesting at times, is because they're too deep. Ever since I seriously got into learning about frames, I find myself feeling that I knew less and less about VF.
    Even now, combos or facts that are taken for granted in JPN are virtually unkown in the US.

    Granted, mooks are in Japanese. But I think that they contain a lot of helpful information. Those who can read really should try it. And translate it. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
  18. esrion

    esrion Member

    Re: Machi Modified Tactics FAQ

    actually, what gaijin_punch said about most people not interested in mooks is true.
    For mid to high level players, the strategies sections rarely hold any new information for them.
    The only useful section are the frame charts, and those only come along once in a while as they are very hard to do.
    But frame charts are very useful.
  19. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Machi Modified Tactics FAQ

    Hmm, I find your post a little misleading...

    it's true that high level players in Japan will not find the mooks that useful, but that's because these "high level" players are the ones writing those mooks!! Would Mukky care to read what Ohsu has to write about Akira in some book? Probably not, but if I was a 5-dan Akira player I would certainly pay attention to whatever these two players have to say or write, useful or not. These "high level" players that we so casually label are the best of the best...the elite minority. When we use them so readily in discussion, we mislead the general reader.

    Second, I do think people's expectations of mooks distort the issue a little here. For example, I don't buy mooks to get strategies either. I buy them to get the few nuggets of info that I would probably never discover myself, or are too obscure to be used by the people I play against. Little things that may not seem important, but make the big difference to me...these "little" things are to me what makes buying mooks worthwhile, and what I constitute as useful.

    Third, I find it hardly believable that players know everything about all the characters. My knowledge of 3 or 4 characters may rival or exceed what is in most mooks, but what about the other 9 and 10? OK, if we're talking Chibita-level, I can see how that can be the case, but some random 5-dan Akira? No way. It's just not a matter of knowing, but also remembering and being able to use in a real match.

    Mooks are enormously helpful (to me), because they give me a shortcut to things that may take me a long time to realize on my own. An articulation of why something works and something does not, and a convenient compendium of knowledge.

    Of course, it's all relative right? If you're on that Chibita level, it's probably hard to understand why anyone would want to read mooks written by your peers that you may not even think is as good as you. But, I have a similar attitude about the vast majority of English-written FAQs, so in some sense I guess I can empathize...a little.

    If only I can read Japanese!!!
  20. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Re: Machi Modified Tactics FAQ

    Well, to each his own. I've never checked any of them out, as when the first VF4 book came out (can't remember which one) a friend of min bought it, and said there wasn't too much good info in there.

    I think the best way to learn strats is to play against good people, and have your friends help you. That's basically what I did.

    Also, people like Chibita & Kyasao are quite nice, as is damn near all the japanese VF4 players. Yeah, there's a few that are wankers, but my point is that I don't think anybody has not helped me when I asked -- even people I've lost to. THAT'S the beauty of the VF4 community. You get your ass-kicked, you watch some more, you talk to your opponent about some moves and whatnot, and you improve.

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