MAMMOTH VF4 REPORT!!!

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by ice-9, Jul 8, 2001.

  1. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    OK, you guys are a bunch of lucky mofos that I pulled my ass back into the office 20 minutes past midnight to type this two-and-a-half-hours VF4 report. But I know if I don't do it now, I'll probably never do it, and if I get a new assignment/project on Monday like I know I will, I'll probably disappear for another two weeks.

    So here it is.

    OK, I just remembered the pluses disappear when you edit, so I'm going to repost as a new message.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ice-9 on 07/08/01 02:47 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
     
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Wow, just went through nearly five and a half hours of VF4 test version...

    OK, first, the setting. No one knows for sure how long the test version was in HK, but most people think it's only a couple of days. I'm speculating the weekend, Friday to Sunday. Of course, I only just found out today, !@#$%. Today was the last day, it's gone tomorrow. The test version was in this dinghy little arcade in Kowloon in Sam Shui Po, in an arcade called Wai Lee Amusement Center. It's a cheap-ass arcade, the lady wouldn't even change my $500 bill even though I must've spent at least $300 there. Oh yeah, somebody also stole my Duke umbrella. What the hell is the world coming to!!

    There are TONS of people at the arcade. At least five waiting in line at all times, and about a dozen more watching. You people in Haywood are lucky S.O.B.s, complaining about the lack of people. I'd love to test stuff out first before trying versus matches, but oh well, I'm not losing perspective here, I GOT TO PLAY VIRTUA FIGHTER 4!!!!

    There's a very particular etiquette in Hong Kong. The machine was set to 2 rounds; you HAVE to give the second round to the loser of the first round, otherwise you look like a dick and the loser will automatically challenge you again. This is good in that it gives people a chance to play more and experiment more, it's bad in the sense that a guy you pretty much killed the first two rounds can get lucky and get the third round off you. Happens a lot.

    Anyway, to the game. I'll start it off with the game in general then break it down into the characters.

    GRAPHICS

    I'm probably one of the few who wasn't too impressed by the graphics. First off, the artistic style is a big departure from VF3. It's a bit like Alpha -> III, from cartoon-like to more nitty-gritty. Does it look like Tekken? Not really. The characters are very, very impressive. There is a ton of detail, almost everyone looks great, and there is just LOADS AND LOADS of animation. Seriously, the animation is astounding, but most of the really cool stuff is quite subtle.

    The one weird thing about the characters is the size of their hands...it's more realistic and proportional in 4, but not as heroic-looking as in 3. But this is a minor quibble and you don't notice it after a while.

    So why wasn't I too impressed...well, it's mainly the stages and the level of aliasing. This game is in really, really high resolution, and that's good for some people, but to me the look is very PC-like. You know, kind of grainy and not really clean (in the cartoon-like way?), which isn't my kind of look. Honestly, there wasn't really a single stage that stood out at me, except for Wolf's stage which never appeared when two people were playing (I saw it when the coin got stuck and someone lost, bringing it back to a demo with Akira fighting Wolf in that stage). That Wolf stage must be quite hardware-taxing for it not to have appeared in versus mode.

    STAGES

    While we're on the subject...like I mentioned, I didn't go "WOW" to any of the stages. The snow stage is still quite nice, but the initial euphoria of the dynamic snow has worn off a bit. The pink-leaf stage is nice, but not as nice as images would indicate. The stage with the green water around is probably the most boring and unremarkable stage.

    My favorite would have to be the Venice stage. Why? Yup, you guessed it, the Venice stage had the cleanest look. The water effects are great and the lighting is fantastic. Contrast it to Jeffry's stage. The sand is great but the background is really sub-par...I have to admit, Jeffry's VF3 background looks better than Jeffry's VF4 background. The texturing seems kind of grainy in 4, and maybe because the stage is so level, the sea doesn't seem as expansive as in 3. The sand is fantastic, but not as interesting as the snow stage. That's too bad, because I thought that would be my favorite stage.

    My least favorite stage would have to be the stage where the lighting strikes buildings down in the background (the coliseum stage?). It's interesting at first, but after the first time it's really kind of cheesy and gimmicky. Also, I really hate the dirty brown/green look of the actual ring. Blech.

    MUSIC

    Sorry, couldn't tell at all. The character voices were much too loud and it's pretty noisy to begin with in the background.

    How are the character voices? On the whole, they were great. The punching/kicking sounds are much different than 2 or 3...I would say the hit sound effects are more akin to those B-grade HK kung fu/fighting flicks that you may or may not have seen before. You know...those flicks where the fighting is totally unrealistic. Think Jackie Chan movies back in the '80s...those sound effects. It's not bad at all though, but it may seem cheesy to some.

    GENERAL GAMEPLAY

    OK, the important stuff.

    To calm all of you down, the gameplay is so far, so good.

    Some people have commented that the recovery times of most moves have been way shortened. This is correct. Absolutely correct, and the effect is greatly sped up gameplay. Some people inferred that because of this, VF4 is more like Tekken. This is absolutely incorrect. Tekken's attacks also have very short recovery times, but the problem with Tekken is that most moves push the opponent back and character movement is sluggish (ex-Mishimas), so the end result are two characters trying to out-prioritize the other from mid-distance. In contrast, in 4 recovery time is also short but combat is still close and "solid," if that makes any sense. In short, VF4 still feels like VF. Is it like VF2? Not quite, but it's closer to VF2 than VF3 was. Overall, I'd say it's a good mix.

    How about the movement and escape system? Mixed opinions here. As most of you have read, you can indeed crouch dash from a crouching position, backwards and forwards. There is definitely more recovery time than in 2 though, and it's certainly not a 1-frame-into-crouching kind of crouch dash. In short, it's strong, more important than 3 perhaps but not as critical as 2.

    As for the escape system, I have yet to fully figure it out. I don't know if it's a difference in versions, but Jason's assessment may be premature. First off, tapping U or D definitely does not automatically give you a VF3 dodge. It's a much shorter step and it feels a lot more awkward. You can go into the 8-way movement (oh my God I've bought into Namco's propaganda) with just one tap/hold. Double tapping MAY give you more dodging distance, but I can't be too sure. However, there are definitely VF3 dodge depths, and I think this occurs when you escape an attack. In other words, if someone tries to heelkick you and you dodge it, the dodge will be a VF3-like dodge. However, if the opponent is doing nothing and you dodge, the dodge is a half-step in or out of the screen. Something like that. Certainly, the depth of dodging is variable. Variable to what function, I'm not exactly sure.

    Can you Korean or Taiwan step? Sort of. Because of the half-step thing, K-stepping isn't anything like VF3, but it's fun to see two crouch dashes in a row, forward forward, backwards forward, etc.

    Also, one of my fears have been realized. It's extremely difficult to go from a crouch to dodging into the screen, and this is exactly why I've been moaning and groaning for the E-button to come back. From a crouch, you may have to go to a standing position first if you want to dodge into the screen. Obviously, this can be a problem. Maybe there's some shortcut way of doing it, but right now it seems annoying that already there are limitations as to what you can do because of the way the controls are set up.

    My biggest beef with the escape system is the difficulty in buffering attacks, and the VF3-usefuleness of dodge -> attack/throw. The timing seems quite tricky. Gone are those days when you can dodge an elbow and kill the attacker. It's little wonder AM2 gave us the dodge -> P+K+G attack...not really an equal compensation though.

    OK, enough of the movement system. Let's get back to the attacks. Some people were moaning about the low punch being high blockable. Well...THANK THE LORD IT'S HIGH BLOCKABLE!!! The low punch is much more important than it was in 3 (but not 2). It is the ultimate flow chart starter. It has awesome priority and recovers fast, it is the attack that saves asses. It is far too fucking strong. As a disclaimer though, most people are automatically blocking low when they see a low punch (which recovers ridiculously quickly), so the low punch stun may put the defender at a slight disadvantage or roughly even. If the defender had been blocking high, however, the low punch may actually "whiff". I'm not sure if this is true, but it's true for many low kicks that are also high blockable. What happens is the defender would lift their leg a little so the low kick from the attacker sort of whiffs; it's a really cool addition and totally realistic. You'll know what I mean when you see it. I'm not sure if the same is true for the low punch but if it is, there may be some balance after all. Someone in Haywood test it out.

    One element borrowed from Tekken is the auto-guard. Yup, if you're doing nothing you will automatically block high attacks. Not sure about low ones. Seeing as how this helps beginners, I don't really mind at all.

    The P+K+G recovery is absolutely essential. If you don't use it often you can get abused by the multitude of ground combos. More on that later in the individual character sections, but seriously, you have to get into the habit of ground recovering. The attacker is at an advantage when the defender recovers, but not really by much. I would say the best thing is that the attacker can get a hit early than the defender, forcing the defender to guess what the attacker is trying to do, but it's nothing is guaranteed. So I guess there isn't much of a guessing game at all (i.e. lie on the ground or get up)...it's "get up 80% of the time or get your ass eaten by ridiculous combos". Ha! So much for 4 being beginner-friendly...those who don't know better will get absolutely killed by those who know.

    What about the throws? Wow, big difference here from *any* previous VF incarnation. It's not like Tekken, but it's not like traditional VF either. First off, throws definitely have execution time; every throw is basically a catch throw. Some characters seem to have faster execution time throws than others (or that's what it seems like), and some have a movement before a throw (like a typical catch throw in 3). I'm not too sure if it can interrupt attacks like you can in Tekken though. However, I did see a SPOD interrupt a jisoutai, and I did low throw one Akira while he was in the middle of doing a low kick, but I think the Akira had cancelled the low kick. Wha-? Cancel? More on that later.

    There are no universal reversals in this game. Also, the timing of a reversal is much more strict. It was pretty hard as Aoi to reverse a rushing Jacky/Lau, even though you know what he's going to do. You have to be much more spot on, although I think you can still reverse an attack from a canned combo (i.e. Lau's PPPing Kage, Kage can reverse the second and third P after blocking the first).

    Rising attacks execute faster, have less recovery (no block animations) but are much more easily dodgeable.

    Block animations: there are none, and given the speed-theme of the game, I'm betting none will appear in the final version either.

    Wall throws. Do they exist? Yes, all of them are still there and probably lots of new ones.

    Breakable walls. Yes, absolutely. Happened many times.

    Also, if you get hit into the wall, you cannot P+K+G recover. Stomp guaranteed.

    Floating: yes, even the way characters float is different in 4. The way characters fall definitely correspond to the attack more (i.e. if the attack hits the leg, they will fall face forward..stuff like that).

    OK, now to the characters.

    AKIRA

    No worries, Akira is still a strong mofo in 4. His dashing elbows are a bitch and VF2 like in recovery. Yes, even the super dashing one. So far, it seems like the biggest addition to Akira's arsenal is the pull in throw. It seems like you can do a lot of different things with it. I didn't try Akira, so I don't know what the commands are, but I think the primary follow up is a PIT (pull in throw) -> dodge -> RBC (this looks very seamless). This may be Akira's new "three hit attack" in 4, a la SPOD and DLC.

    One sick looking thing is a triple shoulder ram combo. WHA-? TRIPLE SHOULDER RAM?? Yeah, you read that right. You have to be in / \ stance. So, something like SDE -> shoulder ram -> shoulder ram OTB -> shoulder ram OTB. You want to avoid looking like you got raped? P+K+G my man.

    That applies to a lot of other stuff, like the two single palms combo I read mentioned elsewhere. Hmm, what else. Not much that I can say about Akira, most people used DE/SDEs all day and the PIT. The b,f+P+K (not sure if it's the same command in 4) is very useful, especially after some PIT follow ups where the opponent is stumbling around. I don't think a fully charged b,f+P+K guarantees a throw opportunity, but Akira is definitely at a big advantage.

    Akira's SPOD takes off loads of damage...more than half. And if you can pull it off, if you SDE an opponent's back (usually after RBC)

    Like I mentioned before, Akira can cancel his low kick. Big whooping deal.

    PAI

    Pai seems a lot more varied in 4. Her f+K,K is great, especially the first f+K. Basically, if the opponent gets hit (or maybe mC is required) the opponent will stagger slightly, giving Pai the advantage. If it's MC, it's float combo time. It looks like it hits mid, but I can't be sure. It's fast and the recovery's not bad, plus with the add-on K it can't be all that bad.

    Pai is the only character who could consistently do ura stuff, and even then, it's not "step in such a way to get to the opponent's back and kill him with a combo" but more like "hop over and TT d+K to hit the opponent while the opponent is rising" type of stuff.

    LAU

    Lau seems to have improved in 4. His P+K chargeable hadoken attack is really, really good. I'm not sure if it's unblockable when fully charged, but I've been able to take off damage every time I pulled it off. Lau bends really low too while charged, so it's a great defensive/offensive move. It's easy to pull off and Lau is at a significant advantage afterwards.

    Some of his new moves are elbow like attacks, but no one used them much. Lau can still be played elbow-palm, up-knife-rush style. His elbow palm recovers INSANELY quickly. Even if you duck the palm and try to throw afterwards, chances are Lau can duck (more likely d+P) before you can pull it off. You have to pretty much input the throw IMMEDIATELY after ducking his palm to get the throw. Beginners are going to die playing against elbow-palming Laus.

    His jisoutai is pretty good, and a killer against those poor beginners. Remember those ridiculous ground combos that I was talking about? Yeah...jisoutai -> b,b+P, d+P,P,P,P,d+K. Half life baby, no counter required. Remember: P+K+G.

    WOLF

    Oh my God, Wolf is so god damn strong in 4...AGAIN. As others have mentioned before, his GS and P+G throw have incredible range. It's really, really fast. And in keeping with the short recovery theme...guess what...Wolf can be effectively played PETE style. Yup, can you imagine...P, comet punch, f+P (new mid-jab move, can tack on another P afterwards, fast hitting, fast recovering) and...GS with extra range. Stagger the poor guy and just do GS, it works like a charm. Block that pesky ESK from Jacky, GS-guaranteed. Although this is possible in VF3, at least it requires some skill in finger dexterity. Certainly, only advanced Wolf players can pull it off consistently in 3 (comet punch -> GS). In 4, anyone can do it. I'm not sure if the GS is guaranteed after a stagger, but it sure as hell seems like it. Even though his short shoulder is nowhere near as good or fast (and without the guaranteed pounces, not as strong as a combo-starter either), overall Wolf is easier to play.

    How good his dodge -> P+K+G attack is is inconclusive. It's a King-type of dodge throw, but it seems like there are certain times when it'll work (like Sarah's VF3 catch throw)...probably when the opponent is not in the middle of an attack. Wolf players will be pleased with him in 4.

    The one shitty thing about Wolf and Jeffry is that you can pretty much kiss the days of low side throws good bye. Why? Try dodging and hitting d/f or d or d/b + P+K+G...guess what comes out every single time.

    One more thing, Wolf has a Aoi-like low-punch reversal. It doesn't take damage, but it puts Wolf at an advantage (nothing guaranteed after it seems). It's very welcome, considering how popular the low punch is.

    JEFFRY

    HOLY FUCKAMOLY, Jeffry is BY FAR the strongest character in the test version. NO JOKE, this guy is A MONSTER. First off, he looks great, and he looks mean. I love his 1P costume a lot more than the 2P one though.

    I'm sure you Jeffry players are salivating like crazy right now...why is he so damn fucking strong.

    Throws: Jeffry has the same kind of range as Wolf, although some skill is required on Jeffry's part. This means to get Wolf's GS range with the Splash Mountain (SM), you have to delay the P+G a bit and crouch dash. But the range is there. His b,f,f+P+G of course also has a similar range.

    Attacks: In 3, the variety and range of Jeffry's attacks differentiated him from Wolf. In 4, however, it's what makes him much stronger. His f,f+P,P is as good as ever. His elbow is fast and is basically uncounterable (at least that's what it seems like). His shot knee is still good and has great priority. His hell stab has less range, but much more comboable (tack on a f,f+P,P on MC). His TKOD is much, much easier to do and still takes off the same kind of damage (about 60%)...and the TK part recovers pretty damn fast too.

    Combos: You want combos? You got 'em. Jeffry has combos that take off damage and gives distance. Knee (MC) -> PP -> knee takes off half life. Knee -> PP -> hellstab takes similar damage and pushes the opponent pretty far. I haven't tried this yet, but I bet a Knee -> PP -> b+K,P works for some major mondo damage.

    Add all of this to the low punch, and what you have is an absolute terror-inducing monster. d+P -> SM works like a charm. d+P -> elbow, WS P, knee/shot knee are all viable. He's just too good.

    Let me put it this way: every time I picked Jeffry I always won at least once. Every time.

    SARAH

    Nobody played her much. Her elbow-knee is not a very good move...she is very killable when the knee is blocked. She has some new kick attacks and they look pretty dangerous, but I can't say for sure.

    Looks great, 1P costume especially.

    JACKY

    Jacky players will be very pleased with him in 4. He can still be played back to the basics, PETE style. P combos and ESK are still very useful. Of course, the stomp after the ESK is no longer guaranteed so some can rest easy on that. However, Jacky's low backfist is returning to a place of high importance. Jacky goes very low when does it, practically uncounterable, you can tack on the sweep afterwards, and it's a great flow-chart starter (mid or low after the low backfist?).

    Jacky's flipkick is much weaker now, and he says something like "Come on boy!" if it hits. Don't worry, there are tons you can still do after a P+K -> P. Tack on K,K for 35% damage. Or P,P,f+K on MCs.

    IMO, the most coolest addition for Jacky is his P+K+G run away. Yes...Jacky can also be played machi in VF4, but at least he looks damn shiok (fucking cool to you non-Singaporeans) while doing it. His P+K+G run away has basically the same functionality as Kage's roll back, but it's much better. First, it's really fast and it goes back far. Second, afterwards you can do dash in with a high kick (which staggers if hit, giving Jacky a follow up of his choice) or a low kick, which doesn't hit as consistenly but is still useful. What? Only high or low?! No worries, Jacky fiends, you can cancel his high kick and immediately ESK if you wish (or low punch, which was a popular choice). The canceling is quick...quick enough for an effective guessing game. Sorry, I don't know what the exact commands are (didn't play him at all) but I'm sure it's something simple, like just K after the P+K+G or d+K for the dash-in-low-kick.

    Jacky...good.

    SHUN

    I played Shun once but was disgusted to find out that his d/f+P,P+K from VF3 is missing...or at least executed differently. His chouwan doesn't float consistently at all, and it seems like Shun is even more difficult to play in 4. It seems as though he is less-machi friendly though, so I'm sure he's being compensated elsewhere. Don't know what though.

    Oh yeah, he starts off with 0 drinks. Sucks I know.

    LION

    Played him once, and surprisingly had a mini-streak. I didn't find anything much with him...his new attacks seem useless. His b+P+K floats on MC though. b,b+K -> P+K -> d+P -> f,f+K,K OTB works, though I'm not sure if it's P+K+G recoverable.

    His poking stuff is stronger, and d/f+P will knock down on counter. The elbow-poke is not as good as before though...poke seems easily dodgeable.

    AOI

    I'm not convinced Aoi is stronger in 4. Certainly, her attacks are better, specifically her f+P,P which has better range and priority (not sure if she's throwable on counter...doubt it though). Why? Mainly because her G-cancel -> throw game is gone. You pretty much have to be a doofus to get caught by it. It's either because she recovers later from G-canceling or because her throw is too damn slow to execute, I'm not sure, but judging her throwing game in general, it seems like the latter.

    She has a new low throw, but big whoop, she doesn't really need one. Her other attacks have also improved...her f,f+P is very fast and takes extra range. Her low sweep no longer knocks down (unless MC maybe) but staggers. I don't know what the recovery is like, but a throw after seems like a good bet.

    She also has a low break guard, forgot how it's executed.

    Basically, non-"true" VF3 Aoi players will find her stronger, "true" Aoi players will be saddened that one of her best parts is pretty much gone. I could be wrong though, but that's my general impression.

    LEI FEI

    Tekken 3, meet Eddy Gordo. Virtua Fighter 4, meet Lei Fei. Yup, it was bound to happen sooner or later, but VF finally got it's first, button-masher-beginner-friendly character, Lei Fei. Lei Fei is actually closer to Hwoarang than Eddy in terms of button mashing. He goes into stances after certain moves, although unlike Hwoarang he can't cancel out of stances. I wonder if Lei Fei can do anything if you walk around him while he's in the middle of a stance.

    The reason I liken Lei Fei to Hwoarang is because although he looks great and his moves look cool, some of the people playing him didn't really know what they were doing but still managed to get cool combos off, cool interrupts, cool sequences, and more often than expected, the occasional victory. I think it's a function of the fact that 1) VF4 attacks has less recovery in general, 2) no one knows what Lei Fei's sequences are or what level they hit, 3) there's no K-stepping and no large stage to get out of danger, and 4) I'm sure at some level the Lei Fei player knew what he was doing.

    Really though, it's not that bad. He's a button-masher friendly character, but he looks very interesting and looks like the kind of character that's fun to play with and against on a high level. He's got some really cool looking sequences and combos, and he can reverse some (if not all) attacks while in a stance. Basically, he has an answer for everything in a stance, more so than Shun or Hwoarang. This makes him interesting.

    But if you have a non-VFer with you, get him to play Lei Fei. I bet he'll like it.

    KAGE

    Ahh, I've saved the WORST for LAST.

    Yeah, you read that right. The absolute WORST for LAST.

    What the !@#$% happened to my !@#$% Kage!?!??! This poor, poor guy. You might as well change his name from KA-GE to KA-GAY for god sake. His new moves are absolutely...well, absolutely GAY, and this by no means is a reference to those of homosexual orientation, because any association to the test version Kagay would in of itself be offensive.

    First, his elbow is a god damn piece of shit. No, let me restate it: IT'S A PILE OF DUNG-SMELLING, PIECE OF CRAPOLA, BOOGER IN A PILE OF SNOT PIECE OF SHIT. 1) It's slower than even Jeffry's elbow. How slow? It's "even if you block the first low punch the second low punch will hit you before you can elbow" mother fucking slow. God damn! 2) It recovers like a piece of shit too. Yes, probably worse than Jeffry's elbow (definitely worse than Jeffry's f,f+P,P). 3) It just looks GAY. OK, so it has slightly better range. Whooppee, excuse me while I jack off into the trash can back there in the corner. So, his elbow is gone.

    Something very different for Kage is his TFT combos. As most have reported, TFT knee floats very differently. I have, however, been able to get TFT -> knee -> P,P,b+P,K, so that is possible. However, your timing has to be spot on, and there may be a stance requirement. TFT -> knee -> P -> kageyaiba/flipkick is much, much more reliable. The flipkick may also have a stance requirement since it whiffed once, but both will hit OTB if your knee didn't connect early enough but I think the opponent can PKG recover from it. The d/f+K+G and b,f+K+G (new move) will also hit OTB, but I think it's too slow otherwise. A cool combo is TFT -> knee -> d+P -> b+K+G OTB -> kageyaiba OTB. I bet its PKG-able though. Also, the damage is crap...30% for the afore-mentioned combo and around 40% for the others. And the range is non-existent as well.

    Kage's SE VF3 style sucks. First off, the kageyaiba may be slower and I've seen Kage hit out of it after an SE (could be because the player's too slow though). So SE -> kageyaiba x2 doesn't work. You can instead do SE -> kageyaiba,K (the new canned combo), but it takes a shit-for-bricks 40 points damage.

    One thing about VF4 that I've noticed is that things are not so easily P-counterable (or Px in Rich's jargon). It's a combination of the recovery time, the stun factor, whatever, the point is P,K counters seem less reliable (often whiffing) and slow.

    Also, recovery time from staggers for the most part seem to have been shortened drastically. Gone are the days when you can easily dash in for the throw after the stagger.

    Throws have execution time and unless your name is Wolf or Jeffry, it probably isn't in your favor.

    Dodging and stepping is no longer as powerful in 4. Dodge -> attack isn't as as easy to do.

    Because of the PKG, you can pretty much forget follow ups like f,f+K and the slide K.

    A combination of all these things, shitty elbow, less powerful Px, way toned down TFT/SE, not as useful heelkick (the hit area and priority seems a lot less too), less practical stepping, slower throws, presents a very, very interesting dilemna for Kage...HOW THE FUCK DO YOU PLAY WITH HIM?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

    Let me put it this way. When I pick Kage (and this is a lot) I usually EXPECT to lose with the mother fucker. I ANTICIPATE losing with him. Sure, I can pull it off occasionally against the lesser opponent, and I did get a winning streak (one scrub gangster-looking guy insisted on play me five times in a row...guess how long my win streak was), but if I win, it's mostly because of the d+P. FUCK!

    You must be thinking: "What about his new moves you dim wit, maybe that's where his strength is". Guess again. His b,f+K+G is a novelty item. His f,b+K,K,K is way too slow to be useful. His b+K,K,K is the only silver lining, and even then its utility is very limited (it's pretty much a b+K,K,K or b+K,K(G), TT d+K type of guessing game). God I don't even know how I can use his P+K (and yes I do know it's a break guard...high only). His rolling is slower.

    Thankfully, there is something that gives me hope. Ian, one of the guys there, can read a bit of Japanese and he told me that in the newer test versions in Japan, from what he can tell of the Japanese forums, Kage has a new sliding type of attack that makes him much, much stronger. That BETTER be the case, because Kage in his current state is unacceptably weak and, worse of all, unacceptably uninteresting.

    Alright, this is enough for now. There's more, but it's 2:40 in the morning here and I have to get up by 8 am. Any questions, post here, can't guarantee a response.
     
  3. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    One thing I forgot to mention is that some of the throws look very, very seamless. What I mean is that in previous VFs the throw is very distinct. You can tell right away when the beginning animation is. In 4 that is less the case...I mean that for some throws you don't even realize you are being thrown until lifted into the air.

    This is not the case for all throws, as for some throws you see the forward grabbing whiff motion before being actually thrown. I think all of these should be gone in the final version and all throws will look seamless.

    It's a case of "Holy shit! I was just thrown!" as opposed to "OK, I'm being thrown now".
     
  4. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    sounds like vf1 kage. cool :)

    and it's MONACO, dammit! venice is flat and has no mountains!
     
  5. CIN

    CIN Well-Known Member

    Great report ice. This is the most indept report on the net I have read. It sounds like VF3 Kage players will have a hard time to adjust to the changes made to him since you are saying that many vital moves are changed. Akira seems to have been improved even further. So Akira masters would still be able to kick ass if they have an opportunity.

    Great.

    PS. Regarding the aliasing in the game. I heard this on another forum and the reason may be that they are using VGA output and probably no AA. This would cause the automatic filtering to be lost and the aliasing to popup. If the game would be displayed on a normal TV say a PAL quality TV or a high quality NTSC tv the aliasing would be less noticable since the hardware would blend the image into 640x240 and the aliasing would be reduced considerable. To judge if it was VGA output you simply have to see if there is colour bleeding. If not than it is most prbably VGA.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is kind of alarming that nearly everyone that has played the game has said that they are not impressed with the game.

    Yourself
    LA Akira (Gerald)
    Jason Cha?
    John Choi?
    Yamacha? etc.

    I dunno, back to the question, can this game be done perfectly on the PS2 in your opinion?

    CrewNYC
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    opps I meant graphics not game.

    :)

    CrewNYC
     
  8. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Naomi 1 and 2 output VGA or standard resolution; can be chosen via a dipswitch on the board.
     
  9. CIN

    CIN Well-Known Member

    So when the game comes to your local arcade tell the owner to choose interlaced output and not VGA and the aliasing problem will be reduced. Or if you prefer VGA output for the clarity just tell him to choose VGA output. :)

    CIN
     
  10. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    a large number people, vf2 players or not, were not impressed or were at least expecting more with vf3's graphics when it came out (look up early vf3 posts on google groups). that did change after a bit, and more likely than not vf4's graphics will grow on people as vf3's did. it's brand new and there is a lot to take in.

    and iirc, jason cha said he really liked the way the game looked.
     
  11. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    thing is...how many existing cabs have vga monitors? in NA, hardly any.

    the technological state of NA arcades is criminally poor. most japanese machines, which are smaller, easier to convert, and cheaper than most NA cabs (something you would think NA operators would pick up on, for christs sake), are at least dual res (std and mid); most newer jpn cabs are multi res (std, mid, and high (vga)).
     
  12. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    regarding your rankings...

    i'm having severe flashbacks to early vf3 days when everyone whined that jacky, lau and akira had been completely neutered. bwah ha. what a riot that was, in retrospect.
     
  13. adsega

    adsega Well-Known Member

    "Some people have commented that the recovery times of most moves have been way shortened. This is correct. Absolutely correct, and the effect is greatly sped up gameplay"

    This was the basis of my whole review, so it can't have been that bad!

    Adam Doree
    GamerWeb.com
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks for the nice report.....

    i'm Happy that jacky is going on nicely...

    Lion has still got his 2 different ways of dodging....cool

    I'm quite happy that lau is back on track, i didn't like him to much in Vf3..

    Lei fei will have a visual impact on the non-Vf player(" look a shaolin monk,so cool"). Thats good, so when casual gamers play the first time, they won't get fustrated. That often happend with Akira,......at least here(Oh look a Karateka,....it's Ryu?)

    still missing Taka......maybe in VF5.....
     
  15. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    You know, while I was rereading the impressions I've realized that it may have given off the wrong impression.

    Y'see, to me, (and this is going to sound insanely idiotic), VF is like a kid. I mean that in the sense that no matter how bad or good VF4 turns out, it's still going to be my game. It almost has to, considering how much time I put into 3. So I don't bother trying to publicize it or propagandize it as much; I say whatever comes to mind and am probably harsher than necessary.

    So, to calm fears here, I should emphasize that VF4's graphics--like 'em or not--absolutely blow the waters out of anything that's out there right now. I'm excluding T4 and DOA3 since obviously I haven't seen it personally yet, but let me tell you, VF4 characters are far superior to TTT's, SC's, and DOA2's characters. It's really a level beyond and not comparable.

    Now, where you can make an argument are the backgrounds. The snow stage and the beach stage "win" by default, but you can make a case for the others. First, because when you fight you only see a particular area, as far as I'm concerned, this is the only area being rendered and you can ignore the rest. Ditto for a game like DOA2/3. By those standards, by and whole VF4's stages are still technically more advanced, but whether they look better or not is a matter of opinion.

    I was actually thinking about this last night...if you look at TTT, DOA2, DOA3 and T4, all the characters look pretty much alike. They all have the nicely anti-aliased, cartoonish look. I may be wrong, but it seems like as long as you keep to this look it's very difficult to make the characters look better with better hardware. VF4's style may be the only way to go to really demonstrate that power.

    Nevertheless, while Namco and Tecmo are still copying (and perfecting) VF3's visual style, AM2 has broken new artistic ground with what they have done in VF4. VF4 should stand out like a sore thumb with DOA3 and T4 on either side of it.

    Can PS2 really do it? Is the aliasing a matter of resolution? Don't know, not sure if I really care.

    And why are the questions about graphics?!? No one has a thought on the gameplay??

    Oh yeah, one important thing I forgot to mention: several (if not all) rising attacks are reversable, DOA2 style.

    I'm not sure which ones exactly, but the Akira like high rising type is reversable.

    Speaking of Akira, I forgot to mention that the RBC has returned to prominence mainly because a SDE -> P -> DLC is very comboable after. Not guaranteed, however, but it worked a lot since people were uncomfortable without the E.
     
  16. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    andy is on a crusade, remember? by any means necessary he must prove that the vague statements he made months ago have come true, so that he can rub it all in our utterly non-caring faces.

    rising attacks reversable! cool! i have to say the autoguard is utter bullshit, though. ugh. did you try struggling and CD'ing forward after the RBC? that got you away from everything in tb; no need to dodge.

    can you CD from crouch? also, in vf2, if you tapped d+G during the execution of a mid level move, you would block the move (as well as low attacks, and duck high attacks. you still got thrown, though). in vf3 (and vf1 as well), if you tapped d+G during a mid move you got hit - to this day i haven't quite gotten over my vf2 habit. does d+G work like vf1/3 or vf2 now?
     
  17. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    You can dash away to avoid the SDE but it seems more difficult to avoid. Enterprising Akiras will dash forward -> SDE or b,f+P+K to mix you up.

    Oh yeah, Kage's u+P+G catch throw seems pretty useless as well. In 3, if Akiras miss the SDE the u+P+G is a sure bet; not so in 4.

    As for the d+G, I'm not sure, but I doubt it.
     
  18. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Last post: one really cool thing with Jacky is his "auto" reversal. Basically, if you are in neutral position, Jacky will automatically parry a single standing punch (not sure about canned punches). I think if you move the stick forward before/during the parry Jacky will hit the opponent back. Pretty cool.
     
  19. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    that's awful. really awful. i hope sega gets rid of any and all auto-crap for the release.

    oh, forgot to ask. can moves be buffered in during recovery ages beforehand a la vf2 or is the buffering window small and annoying as with vf1 and vf3?
     
  20. adsega

    adsega Well-Known Member

    The buffering window seems to be unchanged from VF3, although it's not quite as large as in VF2.

    Adam Doree
    GamerWeb.com

    [​IMG]
     

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